Ashes to Ashes

I am not sure the latest promotional spin on the Australian cricket team - all covered in Khrap - is appropriate... but maybe it is.

There is a Test match starting tomorrow and not a word about it on these pages. The silence is deafening.

The positive signs are the American deep fried fat shop is repainting its livery green and gold as the lost boys of Australian cricket try to find their way back from the swamp.

The lead up has seen some home truths spoken publicly that haven't been very popular.

It was Bred Haddin's turn yesterday. This quoted from Cricinfo....

"I think with Darren (Lehmann) coming in, the message he's got across, the brand of cricket that we want to play, and I think you guys understand the brand that Australian cricket wanted to play and what we have forever and a day, I think that got lost in the period that Mickey had a hold of us," Haddin said.

"I don't think he understood and was secure enough in himself to get us to where we needed to go, and it's actually been refreshing coming into a campaign, smiles on guys' faces enjoying the game for what it is, a great game of cricket."

"I think what Boof (Lehmann) does is he understands the game and he encourages guys to talk about the game and the bottom line is it's a game of cricket. He's a very well-respected person in cricket circles and he's a good person"

" Mickey was very, very insecure and that came across in a lot of our selections and our play I think to be perfectly honest. Under Darren we've got a clear message of where we want to go and how we're going to get there. He's able to help guys on the way to get to that point."

"That wasn't the Australian cricket team that I knew when I flew into Mohali," Haddin said. "That was a unique situation which in all seriousness I can't really explain it. It was uncomfortable, walking into it. Guys jumping at shadows and the insecurity around everything that was being done, so it is just refreshing to get back here now and enjoy the game for what it is, a great game and been great for all of us."

There is a lot to be said for truth. Let's hope he's right.

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Interesting. What about Swann's retirement don't we know? Was he booted off the team?

Enjoy Marrakech..

la mamamounia hotel?

Went there years ago..

You have to admit this was a classic Rex..

"Thank goodness some of the firms are as bad at pricing up Test Cricket as you are Patsy- 11/10 was a ridiculously good price- hence the bet.

We now have a wicket keeper and a bowler saving our arzes. And England, after only one day, are now best price 5/6 to win the series.

I have no doubt the aussies will win some sessions here and there, but overall England will just be to good- the form book doesn't lie."

Stick to horses!! :)

Oh that was just beautiful to watch

England reduced to a bleeding pulpy mess... barely recognizable as the cricket team who arrived on these shores as hot favorites to retain the Ashes.

Five nil. Mission accomplished. Well done Australia!

I found the celebrations at the end contrived and mechanical. Good luck to them, it was a pleasure, but do the emotional stuff authentically.

Most of the emotion in sport happens explosively and spontaneously within the moment, not two games after the series is decided, not in the afternoon after the morning when the game has been wrapped up for five hours.

The Australian players went searching for the hype that they felt should have occurred, didn't feel or find it, not quite, so it was invented.

Soccer goals cause 60 seconds worth of distance run; so do important wickets. But really boys, hugging and back-slapping how ever exuberant, will not bring back a moment that has had its time.

'Soccer goals cause 60 seconds worth of distance run; so do important wickets. But really boys, hugging and back-slapping how ever exuberant, will not bring back a moment that has had its time.'

Never mind, it's tennis time now and we know how much you enjoy ogling the women tennis players as they bounce around the court in the hot summer sun.


Actually Patsy I make more money out of test cricket than I do horses. That is the first decent size bad bet Ive had on test cricket for a while that has lost.

It would all be in the achieves on here that I backed England heavily in England for the last Ashes and likewise when they beat India etc.

At the end of the day I had 3 more bets on the cricket during the series and nearly got my initial outlay back.

Was there anyone out there predicting Trott to return home, Swann to retire mid series (theres more to that than most know) and your lot to be totally useless- did you think they would be so bad? For goodness sake you where flagging them up in Perth!!!!

Just got back from Marrakech- very enjoyable thank you.

I'm sorry but Bailey's got to go. Had a heap of opportunities but just isn't up to it.

Come on Aussies get your **** together.

Bailey has 1 chance to save career. Should have picked Maddinson.

For sure the Aussies r a good chance of winning but it wont be a walkover like this series. The poms were awful.

Where's Quez? ROFL!!!!!!!!

Doolan 6 hundreds from 53 matches
Maddinson 5 from 33

The 160 in aust a game must be the reason

Yep. Sounds like it.

If Watson does not play who bats at 3?
Who opens in 15 mths when Rogers is past it?

Maddinson looks the one to me. Anyone else?

Who bowls if Harris does not play? Bird or Coulter Nile?

Alex Doolan has been added to the squad Weight Special.
He will bat at 3 if Watson is not right.

From what Lehman is saying in today's press it all looks clear cut.

Harris and Watson will play if fully fit. They won't play if they are not.

Faulkner will most likely replace Harris.

Bollinger has been released. Coulter - Nile will probably sit out again.

Pitch looks horrible.

Good point Oldman I agree that Boof has had a lot to do with the teams turn around.

Whoever got MJ bowling like this deserves big credit. Doubt that was Lehman. McDermott or someone else.

Lehman has done a good job at creating a good culture but he has been getting praised everyday by the press.

Some of the success is due to the poms falling apart. It is one of the worst touring efforts.

The real test comes next year in SA against a stronger unit away.

WS, without Kallis I will be putting my money on the Oz team against South Africa. The all rounder who replaces Kallis will have big boots to fill; 45 test hundreds, 115 in his final test match, (only Sachin has scored more hundreds) and also 3rd on the list of test scorers.

South Africa will be relying on G. Smith and A.B. De Villiers to score runs, Hashim Amla is much too inconsistent.

On the other side of the ledger, they do have Steyn and Peterson in a solid bowling attack.

It seems to me that Boof is not getting just credit around here, for the team's 180 degree attitude turn-around.

Watson was gifted a 100 and an 80 by woeful captaincy and ordinary down and out bowling..
He wont get it this easy against SA.

Cook's captaincy today was 0 out of 10 stuff.

5nil looks a moral unless it rains a lot.

Wow. Bloody brilliant Aussies! That was England's great, golden gift-wrapped opportunity.... and still they end up getting comprehensively smashed.

What an innings Chris Rogers, good on you mate no-one deserves it more.

Surely we can now officially declare the Poms a demoralized rabble. Even Cook looks like a man for whom hope is fast becoming a distant memory.

They would seem to need a miracle to avoid a similarly ugly outcome in Sydney.

Five-nil here we come :) Woohoo!

Oh Khrap that's such a 1970s era insult :)

Move on mate, women are reno-ing kitchens now and doing it better than the blokes!

Back to the cricket.

Sorry. It was me who left the screen door open and let the blow fly in.

It wasn't all my fault though. I have had the blow fly blocked for the best part of a decade so I can't hear his buzz.

It's all good now. He's lying on back with his legs in air spinning in circles.

The moral of the story is that if we all applied the Aeroguard we wouldn't need to use the Mortein.

But then shoo-ing blowies isn't as satisfying as killing them, is it ?

Good one Tonto, though I reckon that Krapper would have been to embarrassed to post any further comments on this thread.

One can only imagine how much he lost laying the Aussies in the this Ashes series.

LOL how tragic are England in the field this morning :)

If MJ and Haddin were born in S.Africa the poms would be heading for 5 nil.

Two things Khrapper

a) Your conspicuous lack of humor and boring literalness is completely un-Australian

b) You have no place on this thread

Get back to the kitchen.

I think you jumped the gun again Weight Special.

Clarkes decision to send them in and kick them while they are down has proven to be the right one. An 8 wicket thrashing.

What a pathetic bunch these Poms are.

Unfortunate with Trott but that's where it ends.

Swann turned it up.
Pietersen turned it up.
Anderson had a shocker.
Bell went awful.
Prior went awful.
Cook had the pressure poured on him.

Broad is a world class bowler who came to play.
Stokes looks good.
Root will get better.

As a team, a rabble.

The problems Australia have are still there though.
A 36yo opener in career best form.
A 36yo keeper in career best form.
No decent number 3.
No decent number 6.
Smith at 5 holding his own but still needs work.

A good bowling side with plenty waiting in the wings but a brittle batting order. The next two years are crucial in terms of plugging those holes and blooding replacements for Rogers and Haddin.

Bloody Watson saves his spot with second innings runs again.

Mitchell Johnson

Australian Of The Year :)

Anyone know what Carberry was doing? Did he bet on the Aussies? Awful batting when you are front running. If the poms lose they can blame that woeful innings.

Australian Of The Year - What for ?

What !! Is that for playing in 4 Test matches for the year. There would be people rattling tins outside the turnstiles that have done more for Australia than him.


Krappher is sooking :)

I hope the poms win this. The selectors need to make some changes.

Maddinson 3
Haddin 6
Faulkner 7

No use playing an unfit Watson and Bailey needs 80+ 2nd dig otherwise has to go.

Maddinson looks a huge talent and Faulkner brings more to the team than Bailey.

He may not be the most gifted of batsmen but at least Rogers knows what is required of an opener and makes the opposition earn his wicket....really poor batting from the Aussies today, and on the other hand, good bowling from England.

Broad off the field again. Oh it's the knee this time. Funny how the foot has been perfectly fine today after him hobbling around in a moon boot wearing a tragically pained expression for days on end. Is it just me or is the guy a total drama queen?

We look to be in a little trouble now after Rogers went out. I've read a little and heard on the TV that Rogers is struggling to keep his place in the side. I think that he has played quite well this series. He's made over 50, three times so far. He's got starts but just hasn't gone on with it to make a 100. I think there would be a few others in the side under more pressure than Rogers?

3 for 62 lol

Dopey cricket from Clarke.

Correct Doosra. Dave is a simple guy. The thing is he has all the quality correct test shots and doesnt need to play those 20/20 shots.

FFS Warner! Just because we've won the Ashes doesn't mean your brain can take a holiday. You've still got a job to do opening the batting for Australia. Seriously why even bother walking to the crease with that attitude.

This man should not be allowed to play the short forms of the game when he is in the test side. Davey's mind is not flexible enough to make the transition.

"Davey's mind is not flexible enough to make the transition."

You summed it in one line.

Great with the bad but mental astuteness is not his strong point as we have seen again and again.

Thanks for the response Rex and Loges2.

Understood the same as you, Loges so hence, my question.

Amazing that priceless works of art can be transported around the world but the urn is too precious and fragile to do so. Quite ironic given the origin of the trophy.

Probably to apply the acid and attack them while they are down Weight Special.

Judging by the way they meekly capitulated this morning it worked. All Australia need to do is bat well now. Melbourne is generally beautiful to bat on during days 2 and 3.

Why change tactics?

Boring cricket for fans with poms going so slow.

The real urn is kept under lock and key and doesn't leave England.
Replicas are used for celabrations etc, and are a dime a dozen.


No change Fiorente the fourth test in a row for the first time in 8 years. Another toss win thrown in.

England batting on a pitch that should give the bowlers a bit given the conditions. Australia will obviously want to inflict early damage and keep the Poms to a total around the 200-250 mark. Pretty standard stuff when you send a team in.

Let's hope it's another cracker and we can go 4 nil up.


Should be "for ".

Damn auto correct.

If they weren't 3-0 up with the Ashes safe there's no way they would have bowled first.

Bowl first? Why? Batting 1st huge advantage here.

0 for 44 great decision thus far lol

Can anybody tell me whether the urn shown in this photo is the real thing or a replica?



I don't know the answer- but I would be very surprised if anything but the replica was given to a bunch of cricketers celebrating winning the series.

Spot on Greyshot.

I feel sorry for poor old Captain Cook. Okay he's a Pom but one thing he isn't is a quitter, I have respect for the man.

Swann on the other don't just bail on your team mates like that when everybody's back is against the wall. Selected or not you are still part of the squad and you still have a contribution to make. Obviously Swann doesn't give a stuff about concepts like "team morale".

Sad really.

It's the Ashes tour that just keeps on giving :)
Now Swann has fallen on his sword. Monty is out of form. Broad's foot is stuffed. Can it get any worse for England. For their sake I hope not!

Not happy, and we're limping too

You are a dead set legend greyshot.
Nailed it in one.

Author: greyshot Send message to this user
Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes

Time: 25/11/2013 12:18:24 PM


Swann to go home soon with an "injury"not sure what the official injury will be but I think we all know that it is a severely pulled heart muscle.
Did not look comfortable.

MCG and the SCG are the 2 pitches where spin is a big factor and the sook quits lol

How weak are these poms? Most pathetic touring party ever!

And now he has the temerity to question some team mates who he believes have their heads firmly entrenched up their own back sides. He might want to reinsert his own head.

Interesting quote from today's press;

"It is one thing to know when your time is up and make a dignified exit. It is quite another to leave a bunch of embattled teammates in the lurch because pride will not allow you to run drinks or bring out the new gloves."


Who will be next - Jimmy, KP, Prior? Not much ticker amongst this lot!!

What's happened to Quez?
Perhaps he's gone into in hiding with the Barmy Army. LOL

I find it amusing to imagine Pietersen doing the spoken / weird tortured vocal bits :)

Not happy - and we're sunburned too

It makes me grin every time I say it.


Bluddy brilliant.

I have a highlights reel playing my head and now it has a soundtrack.

'seeing as how you are so eager to talk, why don't you explain it to me then..

what is luck..
what is superstition..
why do people believe in them..'

People believe in them for the same reasons that you make a wish when you blow out the candles on your birthday cake.
Do you really believe blowing out the candles on a cake somehow offers you a legitimate chance to wish something into being?
So why do we do it?
Perhaps we think it just might work so why not give it a try, or, maybe we might think it could work in reverse if we don't do it and bring us bad luck instead.
Who knows!
Not me!

There are many different names for it - Superstition, tradition, fear, idiosyncrasies are just a few - Pick one and you have your answer.

Doosra I knew someone would say take it elsewhere and that's fair enough, it's a topic on it's own..

No need to add the bit about your post moving down the order though, whats that about..?

i'll start a new thread then.

congrats aussies, you beat a bunch of sad sacks who left their fire at home..

you'll give the urn back next time no doubt so it's all academic really.

What is luck?

What is his next question?
What is cricket?

Is this Quez person above 10yo?

How simple is he.

For God's sake Quez give it a rest. This thread is about the Ashes and your pointless waffle has moved my last post of inspired genius too far down the order too quickly.

Why do you need all this explained to you anyway? Don't be lazy, figure stuff out for yourself. And if you are just trolling be careful, there is now a banned button remember!


Glad you went off on one there Doos- it alerted me to your previous post. Gold star from me- very good

Poor Poms, what chance did they have with Quez, LostaClue and Patsy in their corner - NONE!!! LOL

Author: Mr Lister Send message to this user
Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes

Time: 17/12/2013 1:52:45 PM


Good post Doosra. Very well put.

"Quez regarding superstition in sportspeople, do you not understand the link between confidence and luck. It doesn't just apply to sport but to all of life by the way. "

I think the "do you not understand" bit is enough. The answer is a resounding "no" for quez on a range of subjects.


seeing as how you are so eager to talk, why don't you explain it to me then..

what is luck..
what is superstition..
why do people believe in them..

over to u Lister..

"superstitions are common whats wrong with that..?


I've heard it all now...

I suppose you believe in heaven and hell too..?

for a bloke who raves on about how tall he is, how good he is at his job, how much he knows the truth about global warming etc etc..

you sure do sound clueless with a statement like that..

The Aussies just won the ashes back in emphatic style and all Chivas can say is where is quez...?

that'll do me..fair dinkum

As sung by the England cricket team - with apologies to David Bowie :)

Do you remember an urn that's been
Ours for oh so long
We heard a rumour from team control
Oh no don't say its true
Aussies got a new head coach, the action man
Pup's happy - they're all happy too
They have changed all they needed to change
Scary details following

The shrieking of batsmen is killing
Their bowling attack is in synthesis and we
Ain't got no form and we ain't got no hope

And we can't bowl them out Warner's bat is glowing aglow aglow

Ashes to ashes "That ball sunk me"
We saw Captain Cook turn into Rhino's flunky
Now we're three-nil and it's goodbye
We're hitting an all time low

Time and again we tell ourselves
we'll make runs this time
But Haddin's gloves are following us
oh no not again
And we're stuck with the DRS it's not our friend
Not happy - and we're sunburned too
Broad's foot is smashed
There's no urn to take home

We thought we'd do great things
But instead we've done [email protected] things
This form slump has come right out of the blue
Want to be like them, they're men of ice
Want to score runs right now

Ashes to ashes Cool to clunky
The little urn's become our monkey
We're strung out we need to cry
We're hitting an all time low

Boof Lehmann said
They'd get this done
And we'd better watch out
For Mitch Johnson

Boof Lehmann said
They'd get this done
We'd better watch out
For Mitch Johnson

Boof Lehmann said..

Lol sorry :)

How good does it feel? FINALLY the urn is back where it belongs. Well done Aussies!

Well despite the Ashes slipping from the Pommies grasp, this sets up the Boxing Day test to be a real contest. England - credit to them - have doggedly played themselves into some sort of form and they will be nothing short of desperate to avoid a whitewash. If they lose in Melbourne they will be defenceless, broken men in Sydney.

On the other hand with the job done it's difficult to see how Australia can avoid at least a slight intensity lapse, no matter how hard they try to avoid it.

So I think it will be a close one. A lot depends on the state of Broad's foot I guess. They really need him to be fit and firing to be a strong winning hope.

Looking forward to it. In the meantime, let's all celebrate the fact that WE RULE :)

Great batting poms. Poor captaincy by Clarke. They better get stokes out soon. If he bats til tea they probably win.

"Poor captaincy by Clarke."

In what regard?

They win with 4 hours to go and you dish that up because you got nervous when Stokes was going well.

Clarke now ticks all the boxes as a very good captain for mine.

He gave his bowlers plenty of time to do the job on what was a very good wicket. No team has ever chased 500 to win a test. With a bloke playing his 2nd or .3rd test, a keeper horribly out of form, and a tail that has run scared all series, and Broad hobbling and you think Clarke did a bad job as captain. It was merely delaying the inevitable.

They had far too many runs on the board and plenty of time to dismiss them.

This team hasn't made 400 in its last 11 or 12 digs.

They are demoralised and stuffed after the extreme heat.

As I said earlier, it would have been the biggest miracle ever.

Well done Stokes.

Well done Clarke and the Aussies.

Kudos to Lyon. Very well bowled.

The difference between Stokes and Watson. One has the mind of a natural born test cricketer, the other doesn't. Talent is only half the equation.

Superb innings from Stokes. What a find for England he is. Let's just pray he isn't on his way to a double century :(

So frustrating for our bowlers, I've lost count of the near misses that would have been wickets in the first innings. Bowling well but without much luck. Just have to keep the intensity up and our luck will turn again.

I still can't believe Johnson wasn't stretchered off and out of the series. Amazing how this game of cricket throws up the unexpected.

Well it's not panic stations by any means but if Bresnan gets going as well things will start to feel a bit uncomfortable.

Come on Aussies

Warney just brought up an interesting stat.

First time in test cricket history a side has been set 500 plus three test matches in a row.

It will be the biggest miracle in history if the Poms pull this off.

Getting interesting.

Good win in the end. Lunchtime score was a worry though.

Well done poms for fighting hard. Great 100 Stokes. He is real good.

To put the size of that task in perspective....only twice in history of Test Match cricket has any side other than Australia themselves chased a 4th innings total of 300 or more, yes 300 let alone 500, in Australia and won. England did it in 1928 chasing 332 in a timeless match (MCG), SA in 2008 chasing 414. This tells us how difficult a task it is, what an amazing achievement by the Safas in '08 and that the WACA is probably (well, was now) the place to do it.

What England just did was actually quite exceptional, despite being well off the mark in the end. Lesser sides would have folded quickly. I think (and certainly hope for cricket's sake) they come out firing for Boxing Day and beyond, at least to salvage something, that last inning suggests they have some fight in them yet.


Hands, didn't the Windies also do it against us when Lara had an amazing seres in '98 or '99?

What an absolute thrashing - and typically the sore losing little tryhard blow-in can only criticise his own lot, rather than give credit to the other team.

Magnificent effort Oz. I'm off to Spain on Xmas night and never thought I'd be leaving content in the knowledge that the little urn is already back where it belongs!

Where's Quez? LOL

Clarke was great. Just a bit of misdirected passion. At 6 for 330 with Stokes hitting them around the miracle looked possible but went pear shapped as soon as he was gone.

Great series to watch. Im sure the poms will be determined not to lose 5 nil and fight back but without Broad their attack is ordinary.

The world seems right when the Aussies are beating the poms at cricket. It is the natural order.

Fair enough WS.
Was a great win.


OMFG how is Johnson still walking let alone bowling! How was that not a full knee reco? That was horrendous. Have the English supporters been sneaking in overnight and watering the outfield....

Starting to get slightly nervous. Stokes and Prior look confident. We need WICKETS

Ah just about to hit post and Mitch strikes

Thank you God.

5 for 296 hmmm. Silly declaration.

They better get a wicket soon.

Miles in front and Clarke declares too early for no reason other than arrogance.

Johnson nearly did his knee in. Crazy stuff.

Quez regarding superstition in sportspeople, do you not understand the link between confidence and luck. It doesn't just apply to sport but to all of life by the way.

It is just because sport is a defined and finite contest with such clear parameters and measures of success or failure that the ebb and flow of confidence (which is a natural thing in a human being) is so starkly obvious.

The whole superstition thing is an acknowledgement of this human frailty and an attempt to control when and how it occurs - like preferably not in the middle of a test match or a tennis final.

That's why Mitch can't shave off the mo and why Rafa has to have the water bottle 7.03cm from the leg of the chair.

They are making a kind of bargain with God / the universe / unseen forces of nature / whatever.

"I know I am a mere mortal and I have to have my share of confidence down time at some point - just NOT NOW okay"

Because elite sportspeople have such innately strong willpower, they are able to exercise greater control than most. But they fear the loss of it more than anything - this is what creates superstition.

As soon as your confidence starts to waver your luck begins to diminish. Not talking about false confidence ( ie arrogance) but the sense of purpose and clarity of decision making that a truly confident person feels.

Check out how it affects your gambling prowess. Second guessing yourself? Might as well throw your wallet out the window right now.

Team sport is so interesting in this regard because it only takes one member of the team to slip up in the confidence stakes and pretty soon the whole lot of them are feeling it and things are rapidly going pear shaped on the field.

The psychology of sport is endlessly fascinating :)

Good post Doosra. Very well put.

"Quez regarding superstition in sportspeople, do you not understand the link between confidence and luck. It doesn't just apply to sport but to all of life by the way. "

I think the "do you not understand" bit is enough. The answer is a resounding "no" for quez on a range of subjects.

Lots of pro golfers refuse to use a ball with the number 3 because they don't want to think 3 putt.

Superstitions are common.

What's wrong with that?

Quez is upset with it LOL


WS, don't know if you agree, but I reckon both sides have batted in the 2nd innings like they know the series is over?

That's as effortless as KP has batted all summer, and I reckon when the series was still "up for grabs" in Adelaide or the 1st innings here, young Stokes would have succumbed to the pressure.

Reckon Boxing Day will be a closer contest, which, as a purist, would suit me better. But the reversal of fortunes since the Northern summer has been remarkable, and will be the making of some Aussie players. Smith should kick on from here.

All the best.

Mark my word, the highlight of this whole summer will be when Broad comes out to bat...

circus time for sure..

Poms need to be no worse than 6 for at lunch. Problem is 2nd new ball. You would think on form the quicks can get 3 out by lunch and then its over.

Whatever happens the declaration was a bit arrogant. Another 2 overs and they set 530 and still bowl before lunch.

Didn't they change the runner rule? I thought they got rid of it.

I would expect him to bat 11 and try not to get out.

If they are 9 for 320 he probably wont bat but 9 for 450 he will bat.

I'm pretty sure there is a rule that says Broad can bat and have another person (sucker) run between the wickets for him.

Runners were outlawed in international cricket due to the rule being abused. Players were cramping and trying to get a runner. The boundaries were being pushed and both Strauss and Clarke I believe, we're not happy with cramp as a reason when it was meant to be for injuries that happened during the game. The rule was changed a couple of years ago.

Law 2 - Substitutes and runners, batsman or fielder leaving the field, batsman retiring, batsman commencing innings.

2.1 Law 2.1 Substitutes and Runners
law 2.1 (a) (ii), 2.7 and 2.8 shall not apply. a runner for a batsman when batting is not permitted.

Poms are 19.50 on betfair if u want to go for the world record play. Unders for mine. Id take 70.


Not sure it's that far unders WS - both teams showed yesterday that it's a pretty good pitch for batting. If they only lose 1 or 2 wickets in the first session, whilst maintaining their scoring rate, the Oz bowlers will tire a bit and then you never know.

I give the poms 2% chance of winning. Stokes and Prior would need to get 75% of the runs. Bresnan can bat and chip in some. But the new ball is due soon and it is likely that Harris and Johnson will break into the tail and roll them under 370.

If Bell was still there i would give them 5% chance. Thank god for snicko!

Funny how the pitch looks scary but both sides have batted better 2nd innings.

Should we be worried? Prior for one has had such a shocker in this match it would be exactly the sort of form reversal the cricket gods like to spring on unsuspecting mortals.

Nah. Surely not. Can't happen.

Our bowlers were clearly and understandably exhausted in the final session. It has been so freakin' hot over here it's unbelievable. Come on boys, just one more effort and finish this thing quickly in the morning.

It was good to see Watson get runs and he played some great shots.... but I'm far from convinced that he can reproduce that form under any kind of pressure. And note that he still had a brain fade moment as soon as he reached the ton. I will be very happy to be proved wrong in Melbourne or Sydney.

Poms showing a bit of pride at least. When Cook got the unplayable ball first up it looked like it was all going to get very ugly very quickly. So good on them for sticking around.

But not for too long :)

For the record, in the modern game, no side has chased a 4th innings total of 500 successfully. WI hold the record for biggest 4th innings run chase resulting in victory 7/418. England hold the undisputed record of 5/654 resulting in a draw in 1939 tour of SA but the match took 10 days including rest days!!

Poms have won 2 of last 4 tests at mcg. If they win the toss and Broad plays they would be a decent chance.

Batting 1st big advantage there normally.

Lister I'm well aware these acts of superstition, I was simply asking why anyone would rationally do it, and if they could explain how putting a left sock on first has any effect on the outcome of a game of sport..? Short answer is it doesn't, so why persist with it if it's just hocus pocus...?

There can be absolutely no logical answer possible that explains how a moustache on a mans face can effect the outcome of a game, so what drives people to make up and stick to these notions spontaneously for no reason..??

Some of it is routine, some of it is superstition quez.

If course there is no logic.

Elite sports people can be meticulous in their preparation. Routine is a huge part of it.

Why people believe in god?

Not walk under ladders?

Comb their hair the same way every day?

Its part of life quez.

There's no logic about a lot of how he do things but we keep doing them.

Bell and Stokes have batted well. How did the umpire miss that knick? At least snicko was 100% right there.

Poms could get 400 if Prior sticks around.

Good to see the poms fight. Not really but hey they can bat when they apply themselves.

Stokes has a future.

Suprised Clarke declared on Bailey. He could have made a 50 in another 2 overs.

I heard an amazing statistic today. Both Cook and Clarke have played 100 test matches each and Tendulkar played exactly 200 test matches before he retired. As at today, and since Cook's dismissal, if one were to add Cook and Clarke's aggregate runs together they equal Tendulkar's runs. Kerry and Drew come up with some amazing details at times.

Please release the cricket tapes those in a position to do so..?

what are you hiding...on field sledging, using verbal abuse on batsmen by talking through team mates..?

release the tapes..!!!

Poor ol' Quez is reduced to looking for an excuse in the form of sledging.
Talk about scraping the bottom of the excuse barrel.

Must be hard being a Pommy supporter in Oz at present. ROFL!!!

Hey quez, re Mitch's moe...tell me an elite sportsman that isn't superstitious. Most sport is played above the shoulders at that level. Whatever works for him ;-)

Interesting stat Gladys.

Quez, if this rubbish you are dishing up now about moustaches and sledging is the best you have it might be time to ban yourself from commenting.

Nearly every cricket player has a superstition they stick to.

From not shaving in a test match to always putting the left pad on first to always wearing the buckles on the outside to always turning the same way at the end of the run up to the way they take guard to what they wear to what they do in the rooms before the game, socks, undies, etc. it goes on and on.

It's called routine and not deviating from it. Plenty live by it, others don't bother. It's been happening since cricket began.

Johnson is flogging your Poms and happy doing it. Why would he want to change a thing.



think you find that the likes of Anderson and Broad are more than capable in the sledging department. But the aussies, like nearly all areas, have dominated in that department this series too.

Best first ball ever? Pretty close. Incredible session. Watson should hit like that all the time.

Johnson is only continuing wearing the mo after Movember because he is superstitious it will bring bad luck if he shaves it off..

such incredible insight to the mentality of your bowling hero..perhaps he could explain the complexities and logic behind this theory after the series..?

cue tumble weed...

What is the mentality behind your multiple names across forums?

Mitch is still raising money for charity u nitwit.

Warner is leading runs scorer. If he gets 2 more 100s and MJ goes off, he could win POTS.


What a ball by Ryan Harris!!

Stats this morning showed Warner, Clarke, Haddin combined have scored more runs this Ashes than the whole pommy team.

Not sure if its still the case but I think Johnson had scored higher than any player in the pommy team throughout the series.

In summary a complete batting collapse and no bowling prowess to compensate.

Good to see Watson "finally" get some runs albeit with a shaky start. Doesn't look confident in his action, fancy performing now on such a messy pitch.

Lol guys

Yeah why is that. Somehow the mo and the killer stare combination seems to add an extra few kph and a higher degree of accuracy.

It's worked for Mitch. Certainly works for me :)

Today should be enjoyable viewing for us and interminable torture for Pommie supporters.

To paraphrase the immortal words of Paul Keating, we will do England and do them slowly.

It's the story of the whole series really.


MJ has assaulted them verbally, mentally and physically. Poms have been hit hard from head to toe. It has been a 70s style attack and the poms were not ready for it.

Credit to Lehman but also big credit to McDermott for getting the quicks to bowl so well spell after spell. Best quick attack since McGrath and Gillespie in their prime.

How much of a nightmare is Mitch "Freddie" Johnson for the hapless Poms? Not content with bowling like a demon, batting beautifully and taking spectacular catches, now he's physically incapacitating the opposition attack.

Excellent :)

The mo suits him too

LOL Mos are a funny thing.

People get used to your mo when you've had it for a long time and if you shave it off, it's like 'You look different what have you done to yourself.

I've had a mo for about 35 years now and about 12 years ago I got bored one day and shaved it off.

The space under my nose where the mo had been looked as wide as a football field, to me, my face looked totally different.
Friends you know look at you and you can see that they are trying to work out what's happened to your face while they're talking to you.

The mo becomes so much a part of you that people don't really notice that it's there.
Until it's gone, that is.

My family made it clear that I had to grow it back immediately and never remove it again.

I was gunna grow it back anyway coz I could see that my face needs a mo.

Yes, they're a funny thing, mos.

I see Broad is having difficulty walking again.

Hilarious stuff Tufnel. That was broadcast on the ABC yesterday afternoon by Drew and Kerry. At least think of something original!


You're right about Mitch, hard to see him not getting MOTS only Haddin and Clarke are remote possibilities.

You might be able to help me with this you being a bit of a groper(sand of course).

I hear DK has been a big help to Mitch with his bowling, getting it up and getting it straight(his arm that is) or is it the dreaded stare and moustache cultivation he has contrubuted more input???

Whatever, whoever however, GREAT JOB!!!


God how well did the Aussies bowl this morning :) Despite the relentless heat and an opposition in disarray they came out all business and backed up their superbly disciplined performance of yesterday. Proud of our guys.

England are toast. The urn is ours. WOOHOO!

Wont go past 4 days. Poms smashed senseless again.

'Wont go past 4 days. Poms smashed senseless again.'

Quez smashed senseless again too.

Just read the opening post again from Tonto.

Looks like Haddin was spot on, funny how being honest with yourselves goes a long way.

Reminds me of a saying we use in business.......the fish rots from the head.

Wont go past 4 days. Poms smashed senseless again.

Chef, Cranberry and poser had about 10 lives each before they got out. Very shaky batting. Lucky not to be 6 down.

One more good session of bowling and it is over.

Bell needs 150 if the poms r to have a winning chance.

Pitch cracking bad poms need 80 run lead for any hope.

I forecast some nice cracks forming but not by the end of the 2nd day!!!

Did you catch that footage from a test in the 80's, the commentator stuck his fingers straight into the cracks about an inch.


Unlucky for sure but correct call IMO that the dismissal had to stand given the inconclusive evidence. Just one of those things...

Aussies bowled so well yesterday, even Lyon was able to limit the run scoring. No mean feat for a spinner at the WACA.

Pietersen - WTF? he looks lost out there. Good to see the captain make a decent score at least and fight hard for it.

Will be 43 degrees today and those cracks in the pitch will be getting more ugly by the minute.

Come on Aussies. The little urn is almost ours :)

As Vaughan said 1/50 times batsmen arent sure or he was trying to get a feather past the system.

Smith was acting like he didnt hit it.

Imo I thought Smith was unlucky. Video looked like a gap bt bat and ball.

How accurate is snicko? Some of these noises could be feet moving on the ground or something else.

With the extra 30 mins there is no excuse for not bowling 90 overs without rain.

Poor bowling from the poms and oh so slow.

5 run penalty per over i say.

Personally I couldn't care less how many overs a side bowls an hr or all day, I recall watching Michael Holding, Andy Roberts, Courtley Ambrose, Joel Garner, Thomo, Lillee etc all take these massive long run ups, and they were never in a rush, I never even noticed how many overs were bowled, and yes I'm aware they were 8 ball overs but they would never be in a rush to get through them...

If you must make a rule about overs per hr, make a number, say 12 overs an over min, if the team bowling fails to start the 12th over before the start on the last minute of an hr, fine the team not with money or match fees, make it 25 runs are deducted from the score, for every infringement, it's another 25 runs...if a side is bowling first and they fail to bowl the 12 overs in one of the hrs and are fined 25 runs, they must get those runs before either batsman is to get off the mark.

that's just an example, but I think fining with runs is far more a deterrent than match fees..

anyways, it's 40 odd degrees out there, should they be rushing around like lunatics to swap ends all day...I think not.

There is a slow over rate rule quez.
It stipulates 15 overs per hour.

Here's an article with some info.

ICC Cricket Committee for stricter slow over-rate penalties
London, May 13: The ICC`s Cricket Committee has recommended that stricter penalties be imposed on teams and captains who fail to maintain stipulated over-rates, especially in Test matches.

In a two-day meeting at Lord`s that concluded yesterday, the committee felt that harsher punishments be imposed for slow over-rates.

The committee feels "the current legislated requirement of 15 overs per hour was appropriate, achievable and realistic."

It recommended that "if teams and, in particular, captains, fell below these expected levels then stricter penalties should be enforced."

It recommended that the penalties should include stricter enforcement of the ICC Code of Conduct and the Laws of Cricket (42.9, Time-wasting by the fielding side and 42.10, Batsman wasting time) and a doubling of fines for a failure to maintain the required over-rates.

"It also recommended that if a captain led a team that received three over-rate fines in the same format of the game in any 12-month period then he should automatically face a suspension."

The committee felt that host boards also need to be more diligent in ensuring there are minimum delays. It said that in the there was an average delay of 14 minutes per Test caused by issues around sight-screens in the past six months.

A lot has been made about Mitch having it over their batsmen which is true but we are I to the 3rd test and England has bowled us out once , their bowling has been shown up to be pedestrian .
Cook as soon as things don't go his way goes very defensive .

Good article in regards Joe Roots dismissal.

It appears as though everyone believes he may have hit it and that there was not clear cut evidence to say he hadn't. DRS worked correctly in this instance.

Very well summed up Doos...

What a great, gutsy innings Smith is playing. This will be the making of him as a test batsman.

Pretty good effort from the Aussies, apart from Watson who just threw his wicket away - again.

Quez - Chris Rogers can be forgiven I think as he started so well but was just a bit over eager to rotate the it was awesome fielding by Anderson and seriously the Poms were so [email protected] in the field in Adelaide we may have inadvertently come out with our guard lowered a bit.

To England's credit they DID come out fighting and even had the Aussies in a bit of trouble at one stage. But they seem to lack the potency as a team, to land any sort of killer blow.

And the over rate / team meeting thing is ridiculous. Do your job Bowden and call them on it.

Jeez it would have been tough out there today, and with the forecast predicting the next three days will be even hotter... this is going to be a real endurance test.

I think the Aussie might have one day 1 scoring over 300 :) England had their chances. I think keep plays to safe as a captain?

What is the hurry? Very high risk batting. Exciting but some poor dismissals.

40 degrees u would think bat for 130 overs would be smarter.

Smith needs a 100.

The poms stumbled under pressure again. The Aussies gifted them 5 soft wickets and at 5 for 143 the poms had a chance to bowl them out under 250 and failed. They bowled a lot of rubbish and Smith/Haddin cashed in.

Another 20 overs for Smith and MJ and the Ashes are over.

After 51 overs they estimated that only 11 balls would have hit the stumps. Woeful bowling.

5 nil is looking good.

Well done to Smith. He seems like a likeable young guy who appears to be popular with his team mates.

The Poms need to knock the tail over. If they get to
350 plus and bat well into the first session tomorrow then Australia will hold the aces.

Pretty even as we speak.

What's with the slow over rate and concerted effort to go slow in the field?

The umpies need to haul Cook in and tell them to get fairdinkum.

Maybe they are all getting a bit delirious in the heat.

Lister I did not ask for an explanation of what actually transpired re Rogers wicket, I can see the game for myself, I'm watching it now and have been all series, I'm not blind ffs, my question was a philosophical one as to why an opener would feel the need to run a quick dangerous single in over 3 on the first day of a test match...?

Openers are there to do a job, take the shine off and steady the ship till lunch...a scoreline of 0 for 50 at lunch is better than a score of 1 for 13 in the 3rd over do you agree..?

Just so you have a clue to go on with, I'll give you...ONE DAY CRICKET-20x20 cricket

now,,,your turn..

and Relic...shhhhhhh ffs.

I read what Lister said and it makes a lot of sense to me :)

Thanks Lister it makes watching the game a lot more enjoyable when you learn more about each players position and how there meant to play

"The forum is trying to move on"

do you actually read what you write Lister...?

"The forum is trying to move on"

I do read what I write quez but clearly you don't. That is not what I said.

As usual, you get all childish and resort to the usual when someone tries to offer an alternative view to yours.

It's an enthralling days play with Swann coming into his own. Try commenting on the game and stay on topic.

Currently you are on several threads doing the same thing.

oopsy another Aussie wicket...diddums.


Quez, good opening partnerships rotate the strike in order to not get bogged down or nailed to the crease. If this can be done early on in an innings it frustrates the bowlers by not allowing them to get into a rhythm with the new ball and can affect their ability to find the right line and length.
It is simple cricket theory that anybody who has played the game or understands the game should know.
Two problems occurred with Rogers run out. The ball travelled off the bat a bit quicker than he expected, he hesitated. He hit the ball, called yes and therefore should have gone hard. He does that he makes it.

There's your answer.

The forum is trying to move forward but it is hard with lemons like you. Drop the bull act and realise that you don't know everything. People argue and debate the topic. You either learn from it and move on or you grow up and learn how to debate sensibly instead of cracking the sads all the time. Quite often there's no right or wrong. The term "whingeing Pom" fits you perfectly.

LOL...dopey Rogers run out on the first day in the first couple of overs of a test match...

someone please tell me why that run was so necessary to take at that point...?

I'm sure WS has an explanation...

"someone please tell me why that run was so necessary to take at that point...?"

That is a straight out question for mine quez. I see no philosophical stand point at all.

I've explained it as best I can.

The run was there. He hit it to Anderson's left hand, he called it.... And them he hesitated. If he runs it hard from the get go, Anderson can't get the ball there in time, he makes it home, the bowler has to adjust to the other batsman again. It's good aggressive cricket and as we saw, Broad was way out of sync early on in the day. Keep rotating the strike and make it hard to let him settle.
Just heard Tubby Taylor describe it beautifully. Rogers hesitated. No mention of a stupid single or the run not being there. I'll take the opinion of a great tactical captain.

20/20 cricket is whack whack on road pitches, 50/50 is devoid of interest for me.

Again you digress when people wish to debate you.

No Tremlett...???

Would of thought he would be a moral to get a cap on a waca pitch..?

You're an ordinary human being ws...very very veeeerrry ordinary.

On Tremlett, I think my call about him having a heart the size of a split pea is on the money. Appears as though they'd rather play the honest work horse type in Bresnan than risk a known softy like Tremlett in the arduous Perth conditions.


Quez, why is WS an ordinary human being - for showing that you are clueless about cricket? (again!)

When a team is annihilated like the poms were, blaming one dropped catch is just a pathetic excuse that covers up the real issues.

Disappointed Coulter-Nile didn't get a gig, I think he would have gone really well on this deck against a team whose batting is currently very fragile.

I think both teams are just as equal as one another, both tests have turned in Australia's favour due to dropped catches at crucial times, Carberry's dropped catch in test 2 was the defining turning point for's amazing how many batsmen go on to make a big score after being dropped, it's like it gives them some super confidence to go on something..

Catches do win matches and England have been dropping the ones that matter...


Didn't Carberry himself get dropped at the end of play at a crucial time, didn't save the team even with his decent score.

The aussies have simply outplayed them so far. They have put on massive scores and the poms have struggled to pass 200.

The team isn't denying it has a mental problem and hasn't got it together at all so far this series. From day 1.

Aust had a decent score when Carberry dropped it. They still get 350.

Poms have got less than 180 3 times.

MJ has been the difference plus Clarke has totally outplayed Cook.

Quez is clutching at straws again.

Carberry catch only changed the margin, not the result.

doosra it was about 20 odd years ago

When was that Relic? I guess it's still a reasonably great place to live in the global scheme of things, but Perth has changed a hell of a lot in the last few years. I vastly preferred it when I first came over from Melbourne almost two decades ago. Back then it was more like an oversized country town. The weather. The beaches - with the sun setting over the ocean - it was like being on another planet :) The laid back lifestyle. The lack of first reaction on driving through the city from the airport was - hey, where's the graffiti? Why is everything so clean? Have I just accidentally teleported back to the 1950s? And why are all these people driving so slowly?

Yep it was heavenly in many ways.

Now not so much. It's got all the big city blues ( ugly urban sprawl expanding at a terrifying pace, traffic nightmares - Perth's drivers are now as stressed and hostile as anywhere else - crime ghettoes etc) which is why I no longer live in it.

But still, a balmy summer evening on the banks of the beautiful Swan River would have to be one of life's better experiences :)

doosra Perth is a great city I loved it when I was living there for a very short time. I'd go as far as to say it is one of the best city's in Australia lifestyle wise :)

Relic - yeah the heat's going to be epic. Nothing like a Perth heatwave, and in the last few years they have definitely become more severe. I mean okay it's Perth - you expect it to be officially "bloody hot" - but last summer was truly insane. I actually am feeling a bit sorry for England that this test is coinciding with the first major heatwave of the year. As if they are not suffering enough, let's just throw them into a blast furnace while we're at will be difficult conditions for the Aussies too of course but you would expect the Poms to fry a lot faster.

I wouldn't mind if we left Lyon out, the WACA is a spinner's personal idea of hell especially in 40 degree heat :)

Anyway looking forward to it. Although I have canned the idea of going to the match. That was clearly a temporary burst of Mitch-inspired insanity, when the air-con / couch / TV / fridge combination is right here :)

You're right about Tremlett quez but does he have the jam tart? Perth is going to be stinking hot. You need a big constitution to thrive in those conditions. Let's hope he can put the sh..s up the Aussies and make a contest if it.

You can't help but feel this test is very delicately poised can you. If the breaks go Australia's way again you can just see Anderson and Swann turning it up but if they get some luck and on a roll it could turn very quickly.

The Poms aren't shattered yet but they are balancing on a knifes edge. A step away from righting the ship but an inch away from capsizing.

I don't like their chances but one thing will give them hope.

Australia's brittle batting. Haddin and Johnson need to keep standing up at the tail but can they. Can pretty boy Watson make another career saving score?Can Bailey get a big one? Will Clarke continue the pillage?

Can't wait.

The spotlight has definitely got to be on Watson, he should stand up and be counted I think on this one.

With a few days in a row of high 30’s temps will the pitch stand up? I’m seeing cracks everywhere so it’ll be interesting going into the last few days if it’s still on.

I know one thing, it’ll be a testing 5 days and you don’t want to be fielding for too long like the previous test matches. Personally I would go into bat and let the heat take its toll on the others, the poms are already fragile and it won’t take much to tip them over the edge and get them off the boil again.

It will have to be a mighty effort to turn the series around or even draw, they don’t look like they have it in them at the moment, not by a long shot.

Looking forward to seeing Johnson again, nothing better than a bowler/batsman that's in lethal form.

3-169 Lyon got at the WACA at his only test there.

Australia's greatest ever spin bowler Shane Warne struggled at the WACA, taking only 37 of his 708 Test wickets there at an average of 36.45.

The best figures by a spin bowler at the WACA belong to Kiwi left-armer Daniel Vettori, who ran through Australia's lower order way back in 2001-02, claiming 6-87.

Vettori is the only spinner to feature in the top 20 best bowling performances in Perth.

Time for Tremlett to step up to the plate and show some ticker in Perth..

Cook needs to make some runs too, dragging the flippin chain hardcore is the capt'

MD I can't see the Aussies making any changes to a winning team at this stage, unless there is an injury. A winning side is a happy side.


This is quite amusing

doosra the weather report looks like it is going 4 or 5 days of 37 to 40 degree days. The poms might wilt in the heat before the games over.


Do you think Oz will make any changes? I think they're loathe to change a winning team, but I would bring in Coulter-Nile for Lyon. Don't need a full time spinner at the WACA (Smith and Clarke can bowl a few overs if the quicks are tiring) and Nathan is a local who bowls with good pace and bolsters the tail-end batting.

They might be tempted to play Coulter-Nile or Faukner in place of Lyon.

Faukner would certainly strengthen the batting.

Awesome :) Two-nil and counting. Superb all round performance again by the Aussies!

I'm so enthralled with the idea of seeing Mitch in full annihilation mode on his home turf I'm actually going to make the trek to the WACA ( coupla hundred ks) and sit in likely 40 degree temperatures next week for the sheer pleasure of witnessing the destruction live.

The Poms are on their knees now - Perth will finish them off, I do not see how they can possibly win the third test match.

Oh the joy :)

So Quez thinks 4 wins in 11 years is a lot roflmao

No wonder he is such a hopeless punter. Basic maths is beyond him.

He is so bad he is either a $1 punter or losing heaps.

The only thing that can save the Poms now might be the rain. Let's hope play resumes and the Aussie deliver the knock out punch today

I think this is one of the reasons Robert wants a author edit or ban button.

No one else on this forum speaks to other forum members in the fashion that you DO Quezza or even goes close to swearing as much as you do. It's time to LIFT your game

Author: quezacotl Send message to this user
Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes

Time: 9/12/2013 7:53:43 AM


The poms haven't won many games in Australia in the past 10 years. Totally different conditions here.


you deluded fool, we won the ashes out here last time we came out...

deary me..


What a great 5 days at an absolutely awesome new stadium - the best test match venue just got even better!

Will never forget being right behind the wicket for that amazing spell of Mitch's after lunch on the 3rd day. I was at the WACA that day Ambrose tore the Aussies apart, but I think this spell trumps that given the supposed placid nature of the wicket - the atmosphere was incredible.

Well played Patsy, showing graciousness in defeat unlike that uneducated, illiterate bogan that you have the misfortune of having to call a countryman.

Well done to the Aussies outplaying England in every department.All credit to them.

The poms haven't won many games in Australia in the past 10 years. Totally different conditions here.


you deluded fool, we won the ashes out here last time we came out...

deary me..

Some points of interest for you quez.

These are facts.

In the last 3 Ashes series played in Australia the score stands at 10 wins for Australia, 4 for England with 1 draw.

Firstly they shows that the Poms haven't won many matches in Australia in the last 11 years.

It also shows that there are very rarely draws played out in Ashes test matches in Australia.

Makes your assertion, pre match or otherwise, that the draw was a good bet at $2.60 laughable.

Also considering you are the one who thought the Aussies had cheated in the first test by somehow hoodwinking the umpires into letting them play into the lunch break, perhaps you should stop dishing out cricket lessons and consider your own delusions for a minute. Then go back to your board games.

Author: Mr Lister Send message to this user
Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes

Time: 8/12/2013 6:17:33 PM


"before the match no one has any idea of what will happen including you, going for a draw on a flat track supposes that there will be a lot of runs scored by both teams, which usually translates into a draw, coupled with the weather forecast it looked a good bet."

More utter bullsh.. from poor old quezza.
You made the $2.60 looks a good bet call at 4pm on the second day of the match quez. Now you reckon it was a good call before the game started. LOL.

By the way. The draw is out to $13 now.


poor Listerplod, I made the good bet comment here on the second day because I had already made it prior to the start of play on day one...would you like a link to the site where I said this..?

You really are obsessed aren't you, cannot help yourself but look for my posts and snip snip snip...

Obsessed? No.

Amused? Perhaps.

Embarrassed? You should be.

Poor quez.

Weight Special Send message to this user
Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes

Time: 8/12/2013 12:58:53 AM


99% likely without rain. 3 innings in a row below 180. How r they going to bat for 160 overs? They will struggle to last 110.

Pitch is turning. Monty got Clarke with a ripper. They cant just block here and mj bowls 150.

They need a miracle to get a draw.

2.60 was a dumb bet and unders if u had any clue.

Poor Quez doesn't even know the rules of the game lol


What has taking a price about an outcome got to to do with the rules of game..?

Do you back your horses after they race do you..?

before the match no one has any idea of what will happen including you, going for a draw on a flat track supposes that there will be a lot of runs scored by both teams, which usually translates into a draw, coupled with the weather forecast it looked a good bet.

Now tell us what will the outcome be before the next test so we can all back it...

"before the match no one has any idea of what will happen including you, going for a draw on a flat track supposes that there will be a lot of runs scored by both teams, which usually translates into a draw, coupled with the weather forecast it looked a good bet."

More utter bullsh.. from poor old quezza.
You made the $2.60 looks a good bet call at 4pm on the second day of the match quez. Now you reckon it was a good call before the game started. LOL.

By the way. The draw is out to $13 now.

Further to your assertion that a flat track usually produces lots of runs and a draw quezza, here are some more facts.

The last 5 Ashes tests at Adelaide, a notorious flat track, have all ended up with a win as the result. That's going back to 1994/95.

Two series back both teams topped 500 in the first dig yet a result was still achieved with Australia winning.

Added to that is the fact the new drop in pitch has also been a flat track that will most likely produce a result and your theory is out the window.

You may as well use a dart board or toss a coin quez.

Getting 200 and batting the day out was at least a big improvement for the poms.

Biggest batting worry though is Cook and when you're 2 down you don't need the captain out of form.

I picked the Aussies before both games and picking them again in Perth. The poms have lost the last 7 from 9 there and the others were draws.

Syd/Melb depends on the toss but Aust look hard to beat in every match.

Quez picks a draw after the Aussies scored 570 and still gets it wrong. Better pray for 70 overs of rain lol

The big margins are a surprise but the results aren't. The poms haven't won many games in Australia in the past 10 years. Totally different conditions here.

The draw is out to $9 quez. Load up. The weather might intervene.

I liked Smith over before lunch. I really think Clarke should use Smith more after lunch

So they blow for the draw, and you laugh at that, yet didn't stop to think that you could take some of the increased price, righto then ...

It's not a given Australia win at this tage by any means..


Weather would be the only thing that could save England- there is no way in the world that team is going to bat for near on 2 days. They are shattered, an absolutely wreck of a team. Who would have thought!

99% likely without rain. 3 innings in a row below 180. How r they going to bat for 160 overs? They will struggle to last 110.

Pitch is turning. Monty got Clarke with a ripper. They cant just block here and mj bowls 150.

They need a miracle to get a draw.

2.60 was a dumb bet and unders if u had any clue.

Poor Quez doesn't even know the rules of the game lol

Congratulations Lister..

Clarke must be one of the most technically assured batsmen I've ever seen. He is an absolute run-machine at the moment and, the vagaries of cricket notwithstanding, looks set to continue. His batting has also flourished under the capataincy, which is telling, and he seems to bat in the same manner regardless of the state of the game. Looks like he's only getting better too.

Devastating Mitch. Must be the mustache. Mustaches have never failed us in the past.

What happened to England ?

Without making light of Trott's condition it can't have helped the mindset of the team to have a key batsman go home depressed after one outing against the pace attack.

If Trott's condition was well known and long standing one surely England must have considered that he could be incapacitated at any time the black dog bites and had Plan B in the form of another batsman primed to step into the breach - and they haven't.

They also look to be a bowler short. Tremlett's not the answer. Finn is a good bowler but lacks menace. Angry pills required.

Anderson struggles if the ball don't swing and Broad looks one ut and lonely.

Fully agree re/Swann. Getting after him has always been the answer but until recently the Australians haven't had the confidence to do so. Bailey and Haddin showed the way.

Two spinners on a drop in ? Personally I wouldn't play two on anything other than a fall apart pitch in Australia and this isn't one of those.

It was pretty noticeable that those dropped catches and missed opportunities yesterday and today were big turning points in this test, as soon as Clarke goes the rest start falling quick smart, the no ball was just annoying, Panassar is the worlds biggest chicken when it comes to outfield catching, convert those and the score could easily of been all out for 350, but there you go the Aussies got those turn of the match breaks and now have a surmountable innings, unfortunately all I see this test ending in now is a draw, failing a complete English batting collapse the $2.60 the draw is looking good now...

"$2.60 the draw is looking good now..."

You really know your cricket quezza.

The draw is now out to $6 and rising.

$100 the draw now lol

Could be 5 nil if mj keeps bowling like this.

Kp must be real dumb to play a shot like that with 2 fielders there.

Not sure the poms will even make day 5. Cook needs a 100 to get some confidence even if they lose. He looks really low atm.

The current price is $1.16 for an Aussie victory. There is rain about according to the Weather Channel and England have lasted two days in South Africa. Who is backing them at that price? How much have you got on them Lister or are you too busy thumping that keyboard and ignoring your wonderful life, family, house and job? Perhaps you are just sitting up there in the ward with Tufnel, Pinhead, Camel and Bettowin.

No Dame Edna, it appears as though you are both lining up taking turns to join in. You're hogging front position though.

That's a queue.

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle dum.

One without a clue and one dressing up as a woman.

In they both come on queue, as if by request.


No wonder Patsy has gone a bit quiet in here- this England side is an embarrassment. If it was a horse race the connections would be brought in for a 'please explain'

This could be the best worse bet Ive ever had on cricket!!!

"This could be the best worse bet Ive ever had on cricket!!!"

Only the kiss of death does that at those odds.

Did you upset someone for some bad karma?

I think you mean "cue" Lister. Queue is was forms outside the building that Tufnel cleans.

"Queue is was forms"

This is an easy game to play Dame Edna.

Brave attempt to disguise your poor grasp of English Lister. In any event, "easy" is not the word to describe you, more along the lines of "simple" would be the case. Both you and Tufnel certainly have a problem with a woman giving an opinion, is there a problem darling?

I should add with Cook gone I think they have no hope.

Or perhaps a bloke pretending to be a woman pretending to have an opinion.

Now stop wrecking this thread and get back on topic.

Interesting declaration this morning and is real show of confidence from Clarke. Straight on the attack and backing the bowlers to do the job. I like it. Cook going straight away is good too. He pummeled us out here last time but looks like everything is coming in on top of him at the moment. Both he and Swann copping the treatment have been big plays so far in this series.

Can the Poms get 500 plus and win?

They've barely made that in three innings so far.

All that Quezza gave was an opinion, Lister. I think he said that failing a batting collapse he thought the draw was on. You now decide to belittle him for giving a view. When you select a horse or a team and it doesn't win, does that mean everyone should get on here and deride you? You are moralising away on the "The Forum" thread and cranking it up over here. You are just like that dunny cleaner Tufnel, a prize goose with nothing to do with your time except thump a keyboard to anonomous readers! If you had ever played sport you would realise that no contest is over until it is over.

Your right Quez it seems the poms have thrown it or should we say “dropped” an opportunity. It was looking like a good even game until then. I think the cracks are showing now of the mental weakness that perhaps runs deeper than first appeared.

Monty is ok at bowling but my goodness how can a first class international cricketer be scared of catching a ball, in the infield where the ball has speed he would be even worse. He was expensive today and compromised the win for the poms and not only in his bowling.

I hope they at least draw so it keeps the series alive.

Adelaide ground looks great though, money well spent.

Great inning by Haddin and a superb skipper knock when it mattered.

The biggest thing I've noticed so far in this series is the bowling of Swann. The Aussies have gone after him from the word go. A clear plan to upset the Poms bowling. Even the tail have been belting him. Without Swann being a dangerous weapon the attack looks a bit sterile on occasions. If he finds form the momentum could shift dramatically. No doubt the Aussies will want to keep going after him.

The poms have had their break in luck with Carberry out at stumps last night. Now at 50+.

The poms still look up against it so far.


Where have England gone in these first 2 matches? They have been outplayed, outmuscled and out psyched. They look ordinary in the field and pedestrian with the ball (Broad the exception).

Make all the excuses in the world, the bottom line is Australia have out played them in just about every facet thus far.

"as Clarke goes the rest start falling quick smart, "

Yes yes quez. Very astute.

You forgot to mention that the only batsman left to come in after Clarke departed were bowlers and you also jumped in a wee but early as the tail piled on another 113 runs with Harris and then Lyon dispatching the ball both to and over the fence several times.

The poms have to bat until lunch on day 4 to save this and that's going to be hard. The Aussie quicks are quick while the poms are pretty slow around the 135 mark. Swann is useless in Australia and Monty isn't any better.

If the poms are worse than 5 down at tea they are in big trouble.

It's a shame Clarke is hopeless with challenges. He should be asking the bowler with LBWs not the keeper. 2 down at stumps would have been huge.

George Bailey is one of those cricketers whose natural ability is kind of limited but he has a head for cricket and applies himself cleverly.

His innings yesterday was not only entertaining it was very appropriate in the circumstances taking the game to the bowlers at the point where, in recent times, Australian batsmen have been paralyzed by doubt and insecurity. In other words he took the initiative, played his natural game, took the pressure off Clarke and moved the cause forward. I like the bloke.

The pitch looks an ideal Test match track and there is a great weekend of cricket ahead of us.

Yeah I like Bailey and Haddin adds something to this team. Not a big fan of Smith though - he got out to a ball that did little and he looks at times like a no 10 batsmen who is trying his best.

Surely there's a better test prospect than Smith out there?

It would be good if Bailey, Haddin and Rogers can keep the form going for 18 mths so they can find some replacements but Smith is iffy and unless he picks up wickets and gets runs soon he might have to be dropped.

Great 100 by Clarke and the pom pom pommies have dropped the ball here. Funny to watch the young punk bowler take the bait and lose his cool.

Clarke avgs 64.8 as captain now. Awesome record.

WS do you think because there was plenty of spin yesterday for the English spinners. Australia might decide to bowl Steve Smith more than in other tests?

Quez DO you want to keep following me around the forum? or do you want to start to put some actual input into this cricket thread without any BS?

Quezza it is still good to see you have nothing of merit to input on the subject of cricket.

Look if you really want I'll start a thread just for you on the board game Test Match.

English is not your first language is it Relic..?

Do you have a first language Quez? If so could you tell us what it is?

Good mix on day 1 of runs and wickets. Clarke the key tomorrow.

Interesting that Rogers said it was like a day 3 pitch and the spinners turning it on day 1 was a surprise.

380-400 might be a good score afterall.

Oh Quezza you are the god of cricket, what with all your experience and knowledge of the game.

How on earth could I come out with a comment like it will be interesting to see what bowlers are picked for the Adelaide test.

Or how dare I suggest that the fast bowlers would be doing a lot of bowling on a batsman's Paradise in Adelaide.

Have a look at the score card Quezza I'd say all the bowlers that the English have picked are bowling plenty of overs so far. Fast, Medium pace and spinners

Australia 1st innings







Chris Rogers NOT OUT 72 164 43.90 11 0
David Warner c Michael Carberry b Stuart Broad 29 32 90.62 4 0
Shane Watson c & b James Anderson 51 119 42.85 6 1
Michael Clarke NOT OUT 0 0 0.00 0 0
Extras (nb 1, b 2) 3
Total (2 wickets; 52.2 overs) 155







James Anderson 12 33 1 2.75 4
Stuart Broad 10 42 1 4.20 2
Graeme Swann 12.2 35 0 2.83 1
Monty Panesar 13 26 0 2.00 3
Ben Stokes 5 17 0 3.40 2

So Relic, where are all the fast bowlers doing lots of work, all I can see is 2 spinners worrying your top order into submission..

Ahhh Quezza again you're proving to be one of the main reasons why Robert has asked us as a group about some changes to the forum.

The R&S forum is right up there with the best of them and it is a super site overall. But like other forums it does have it share of blow flies and the Mortein needs to come out to remove them, from time to time. Then the surroundings become pest free and a much better place.

Congratulations Relic, you've found this forum to be the best place in the world to learn about the game of cricket...

Lister must be very proud..

It's called watch, listen and learn from the people who know about what THE'RE are ON about Quezza. That is how you learn.

So to answer why I am chatting more and asking more questions. I now have a little more knowledge about the game of cricket off the people WHO know what they are on about in regards to the game of cricket.

Maybe that is something you could you should do, instead of trying to be a know it all on every subject.

You have been conspicuous in your absence in past cricket threads on this forum Relic, so tell me why the sudden (feigned) interest..?

I don't follow any other forms of the game bar the ashes test matches, so that's my excuse.

you said " The fast bowlers could be doing a plenty of work in Adelaide "

I asked why...

It's a dull track, so what it always is over there, you could say the fast bowlers do plenty of work every test match, they if you had of said the quicks could be bowling long stints for little reward that would make more sense, but even still it's stating the bleeding obvious.

I don't understand why Adelaide doesn't change the type of pitch they present, unless being known for a flat slow track is something they are happy with of course.

I'll make a statement too Relic..

The batsmen will have to hit the ball to make some runs.

LOL point taken Quezza, but it might have been better coming from Tonto rather than your good self. You're no Jeffery Chaucer and have been known to make many spelling mistakes and errors on many occasion's LOL. Good work though on potting me on my writing & spelling skills. I feel much safer now that we have you as the spelling police here at R&S now.

NOW let's get back to my question on the bowlers and why they might be doing plenty of work at the Adelaide oval in the next test Quezza???? Have YOU worked it out yet? I noticed you RAN away and HID for a while from R&S. But you could go and hang out at the other joint. I wonder why that was????? Oh I think I know why now. You have NO idea about cricket but you are an expert at the board game Test Match LOL

Woeful shot from Warner but with his style that's going to happen at times.

Watson and Rogers really need to bat most of the day here. Pretty good pitch.

3 for 280 at stumps should be the target if the rain stays away. Hardly any clouds yet it rains.

Perhaps if you could write a legible sentence people could understand people might respond Relic...

fair dinkum the last half dozen posts of yours are almost unreadable...

How bout quoting a source, or copying the text from the story you apparently read that waffle from, so we don't have to read your nonsense..

Can you believe the English cricket board have asked the Australian cricket board to drop the Gabba off the list as a venue to test cricket at against them. The crowd was a little to mean and vocal to the pommy cry babies.

I don't think the toss matters in Adel. It bats well from go to whoa. I remember Aust batting first and getting something like 500 and then India got 650 or something big and beat us. The pitch doesn't break up and the best time to bowl is the first session. If Clarke wins the toss I'm sure he will bat but if he loses the toss it's not a big problem.

Rogers and Watson need to stand up here. We can't afford another bad start.

If Aust bats first the aim should be 600.

Even though it's a new drop in pitch and past history means squat, I agree with you about the toss Weight Special. There might be a bit of juice in it for the first half of the day so if the bowling side can find the right line and length they may be able to inflict some damage.

To answer your question Quezza traditionally the Adelaide oval pitch has been a batsman's paradise. Therefore the bowlers would be bowling for a long time and be in the field.

The other factor I was getting at is the pitch is a new drop in pitch. This is the first time a pitch like that has been used at the Adelaide oval. SO it will be interesting to see what types of bowlers they will go for as well.

Here is a good article with Damian Hough if you want a read to get up to speed Quezza

Adelaide Oval curator Damian Hough admits he's not sure how his brand new wicket will behave in the second Ashes Test between Australia and England starting on Thursday.

It is the first time a drop-in pitch will be used at the redeveloped ground which has traditionally been a batsmen's paradise and offered spin for the slower bowlers late in matches.

"We're trying to produce a typical Adelaide Oval pitch, something that is going to be good to bat on and something that will hopefully spin as the game goes on," Hough said Tuesday.

MORE: England pray for Ashes redemption in City of Churches | Second Ashes Test preview: Australia v England

"We think it's pretty close to what we have had in previous years, it might be a little bit slower this year being brand new, but we think talking to the keeper here in South Australia, Tim Ludeman, he thinks the bounce and carry is pretty close."

The Adelaide Oval re-opened in October and the runs have flowed in two drawn Sheffield Shield fixtures held at the famous ground.

Asked if he is concerned his previous two pitches have not produced a result, Hough replied: "At the end of the day you're just trying to produce a pitch that is a typical Adelaide Oval pitch.

"So from our end it's going to take us time to get it exactly where we want it, there's no doubt about it.

"They (drop-in pitches) behave slightly differently, they're reacting differently but it's the same clay we're using, the same grass variety and we keep learning and reviewing what we do and do our best to maintain the characteristics that we're used to here in Adelaide.

"Everyone has just got to realise it's brand new, it absolutely brand new ... and it's going to get better the more we work them and the more we use them."

Think about it quezza? Go on give it a try and really think about it as it isn't a board game called Test Match

Why would the fast bowlers be doing plenty of work in Adelaide Relic...?

C'mon quez. Think about it.

The remodeled Adelaide Oval has a drop in pitch now and all evidence so far points to a Batsmans paradise.

If that is the case the bowlers will be toiling hard to get wickets. The fast bowlers will be rotating continuously.

Winning the toss is again the key. Bat first and get runs on the board. The pitch should flatten out into a road by the end of day one and be prime for plundering on day two and three.

I doubt Lehman is worried about Perth though. They need to strike while the iron is hot hence his non rotation attitude. They will worry about Perth when the time comes and act accordingly win lose or draw. If they win, England are cooked. Lose, and the Poms may well seize the advantage and the Aussies will be under massive pressure. Especially with their weak batting problems.

If the other side bats for 130 overs all the bowlers will be working hard.

Gee Quez have u never watched the game? LOL

It will be interesting to see what bowlers are selected for both sides in Adelaide with the Perth test hot on it's heels. The fast bowlers could be doing a plenty of work in Adelaide.

I don't really understand why some of the cricket journalists seem to think the Ashes series is all but won by Australia.
I think that when they were 6/132 one more wicket right then and the game may well have been all over for them. I think that they managed to get the English out and straight back in to the field in hot weather was really telling.
The English are notoriusly bad starters. They lost the first test in India and then came back and won the series. That is a good cricket team that can do that over there.
I read where every occasion they have beaten Australia in Australia it was because they had at least one outstanding bowler, whether it be Larwood, Tyson, Snow or Flintoff. Ihope we give them a good towelling but cant seem to forget just how bad our top order can be.

Sorry about the typo, "notorious".


Gladys, I don't think the reputable journos think that, only the numpties without a clue. You are dead right re our top order and I'm expecting England to come back hard.

However, they are not as good as they think they are - no batsman averages 50 nor bowler <30, so even their best players need conditions to suit and don't have very big hearts when things don't go their way.

Therefore, I'm hopeful we can at least get a draw on a good deck in Adelaide and then bounce them out again at the WACA, but I won't be putting money on that scenario.

I'm not sure why they don't wear strapping WS. Playing footy we always had to get our ankles strapped before training and games

" Dangerous bowling" lol.

What about the days of Lillee, Thompson etc when hapless Pommie tailenders were marooned out there at the mercy of those rampaging maniacs without helmets and with practically zero body protection on pitches that were not specifically prepared to favor batsmen? Now those poor sods really did have something to worry about.

So yes.... I'm afraid it is undeniably a bit sooky that this England team even bothered to query the "legality" of Johnson's bowling.

Since when is a spell of no holds barred, ruthless fast bowling not one of the best loved aspects of test cricket.

We can forgive Trott for not coping with it too well as it was probably a heroic effort by him to even drag himself to the crease.

But otherwise - man up England.

We got pommy sooks on here why should the cricket be any surprise?


It now comes out that the poms went and had a sook to the match umpires about the Australian bowling. Again another example of how bigger sooks the poms are. They can give it but can't take it.

I don't think Warner needed to be fined in this instance, I just wish he would shut up. He is always mouthing off about something or someone OFF THE FIELD. Sledge away during the game - that's all good and we love it - but otherwise just zip your lip and do your job.

IMO it's not good sportsmanship whilst in a presser to single out one person on the opposing team and call them or their performance "weak." By all means say something generalized like, England are having trouble with the short ball and we seem to be on top on them, and if you have a smart*rse grin on your face while you say it even better. But don't make it personal.

I agree with all the comments below in support of Clarke and find it ridiculous he received a fine. He did exactly what you would expect the captain of our national team to do out there, including use of the "f word" in appropriate circumstances such as when dealing with a Pom of the worst kind like Anderson.

Well done Clarkey

Sledging has been around prior to WG's days but should all be left on the paddock. Give 'em heaps in the middle but reassume adulthood when you go back through the gates. Some great sledges over the years are things of legend and in my view part and parcel of the great Ashes tradition. The poms will come back on the drop road in Adelaide and we'll need to keep very patient with both bat and ball to stay one up. Perth has great spectacle appeal.

Warner's been around test cricket for two minutes,has a good test match and then publicly comments on a player who's been around a lot longer,scored more centuries and averages more runs.
No class at all.
He's been around cricket long enough though to know about the highs and lows that batsmen go through.
Maybe when he's played 100 tests he can offer appraisals until then he should just stick to scoring runs.

" Im not sure how Warner escaped a fine. Im sure there is some ICC rule that you are not allowed to make disparaging remarks about opposing players in the press- perhaps Warners remarks were not seen as that?"

Are you for real? You've said far worse things on here.

If they fine Warner for nothing then players won't say anything to the press.

Here's what he said:

"Our bowlers are bowling fast at the moment, England are on the back foot and it does look like they've got scared eyes," Warner said. "The way Trotty got out today was pretty poor and pretty weak, obviously there's a weakness there at the moment and we're probably on top of it."

"I think he's got to get new sledges as well because it's not working for him at the moment. Yeah he's worked hard in the nets on the short ball, we've seen him, but facing a 150kph short ball from Mitchell Johnson, the way to go is probably not trying to back away."

What's the problem with that?

He said he's got a weakness with short balls.

The poms thought the same about Clarke.

You whingers on here need to wake up to yourselves - far far far worse things have been said over the years.

If you can't say an opposition player has a weakness against short deliveries then you basically can't say anything!!!!!

What a farce that would be.

Dear oh dear.

Oh yes we're so vulgar and bogan Quez. I suppose Anderson's threat of violence ( which was what provoked Clarke's comment) was the height of gentlemanly adherence to the great cricketing traditions of yore. Give us a break.

Anyway it's all the Nine techies fault because the stump mike is supposed to be switched off between overs, personally I'm happy for it to stay on at max volume so that we can all enjoy a bit of Pom-sledging by proxy :)

I hope Trott is okay. Must have been an incredibly difficult decision for him to make and not something any Ashes cricketer would do unless they were in a bad way. I'm sure everyone, even the lamentable loudmouth that is Dave Warner, wishes him a speedy recovery.

Oh well. Just another in a long line of cringe-worthy moments from the Warner playbook. I know we need the guy in the team especially in his current vein of form, but seriously he is such a prat.

Anyway great win by the Aussies and great to see Mitch in fine and fire breathing form, my fave bowler :)

Now bring on Adelaide. I'm sure it will be a lot closer match this time, England are too good a team to be smashed like that twice in a row.... but hopefully we go up two-nil and the gloat factor starts to really kick in.

Go Aussies!

Quezza I believe it was jimmy Anderson who first came out and said to Bailey I'm going to punch you in the face. Also Jimmy Anderson is the biggest sledger of all time on the English cricket side. Please do tell me if I'm wrong here?

Bell looks the logical no 3 now. Makes their team stronger if anything with Trott so out of form.

Beware the wounded poms.


The only good day for Quez is dole day.

Is that what they've been sledging?

Nice..problem is it'll only fire England up.

Give up quez.

First you try telling us the Aussies cheated by playing into lunch and now this.

The English captain was widely quoted in the press after the press conference, that he was not bothered by what happens out on the ground. Part of the game so to speak.

He was more bothered by what Warner said after the game and fair enough. No need for it. I think you'll find most on here wish Warner would shut up and play.

To top it off you, the biggest foul mouth nut job on the forum, now thinks he can accuse everyone else of having no class.



I agree with Mr Lister here- Im not sure how Warner escaped a fine. Im sure there is some ICC rule that you are not allowed to make disparaging remarks about opposing players in the press- perhaps Warners remarks were not seen as that?

However Clarke deserves a pat on the back. Firstly when he was questioned about what happened on the field he had the decency to state he wouldn't be saying what happened on the field or what was said, even though it would have explained his broken arm comment (it was through a 3rd party we found out what was said).

Secondly, I don't care how old Bailey is, he is a debutant fighting to grab himself a spot in a national team. If any player, especially on debut, was threatened with physical violence on the field by a highly experienced fast bowler I would expect nothing less from any Captain of any team.

If you watch closely, after Clarke says a couple of more things to Anderson, Anderson appears to nod in a way that would suggest he understood Clarkes point. All very interesting but my opinion of Clarke only got stronger after this little episode.


I'm no fan of little Davey Warner, but Flower is just being another hypocritical sulking pom (even Zimbabweans get infected with it!) by having a go at Warner only - why didn't he take umbrage at comments from poms such as Vaughan, Boycott, etc?!

There is a big difference md , Warner is playing.
I just don't get why he has to say anything at all, maybe after he has score 10,000 test runs , the guy just comes across time and time again as a complete [email protected] .

As far as clarke , I think Warne sums it up well if that is what Anderson said, he is another complete [email protected]


"There is a big difference md , Warner is playing.
I just don't get why he has to say anything at all, maybe after he has score 10,000 test runs , the guy just comes across time and time again as a complete [email protected] ."

Betto, I agree he is a tool and have said as much on this forum on several occasions - in this instance though I think Flower & co are being hypocritical

MD you really detest "poms" don't you.


Are you for real.Grow up.

Do you not think that warner and lehmann come across as thuggish?

I find some of the aussie team vulgur not because they are Australian as that would make me a mor0n but because of who they are as individuals.

"MD you really detest "poms" don't you."

Most people in the world don't like poms much. The Scots/Irish don't, the French/Germans don't, the rest of Europe ignore you. Australia doesn't like you, Americans barely know you exist and the rest of the world don't care about you guys.

You must be really ignorant of what people think of you, but most on here can't stand you and you still can't work it out.

"Are you for real.Grow up."

You act like a child with all this Euro bs and constant lies.

"Do you not think that warner and lehmann come across as thuggish?"

No, they come across as average blokes who can play cricket.

Are you really that soft Patsy?

Never been in a rough pub?

Never seen the English soccer fans? LOL

"I find some of the aussie team vulgur not because they are Australian as that would make me a mor0n but because of who they are as individuals."

No, you're just a biased pom who can't see the light thru the trees.

Anderson can dish it out but can't take it back.

He started this 8 years ago by telling Martyn to hit Clarke with a pad and fully hates Clarke.

Real mature of him.

You poms really are sooks.

Toughen up or pack up and go home.

Bye bye.

The cricket pitch shouldn't be comparable to rough pubs and English football fans.

To generalise that all French or Germans or all English do such and such or think this and that is for half wits.

The rest of the post is laughable.

"To generalise that all French or Germans or all English do such and such"

Not all but that's the general consensus. Just like most on here don't like you.

You're a very unlikeable person with a low IQ. You can't even put a sentence together that makes any sense. You pass off opinions as facts and pass off lies as facts. You say one thing pre race and another post race.

No one on here respects your opinion because your lies and backflips happen on a regular basis.

You admitted that you can't read a formguide in the past and yet you make comments regarding formlines all around the world and everytime you get exposed as a phony with no idea.

Rex, Saintly and Tiger have carved you up week after week and still you come back with more lies and backflips.

You're a complete joke.

"You're a very unlikeable person with a low IQ"

We've never met.

This is fantasy typing garbage with no real life relevance.

A low IQ is the ramblings about everyone hates England.

Like a child in a playground.


Patsy the English football fans reference is totally relevant - you and the other pommy sook on here khrap on about bogans yet pommy footall fans would have to be the biggest bunch of bogans following any sport anywhere in the world. Bathurst would be a High Tea by comparison!


Lol at MD last post. 'Bathurst a Tea Party'- gold



what are you banging on about mate? Yes I have said worse things on here but Im not an international cricketer bound by ICC laws.

I don't think what Warner said was that bad, but that doesn't mean he didn't break any laws. Im sure there is a law saying you cannot attack opposition players in the press, but I don't know the exact wording of the law and apparently Warner didn't cross that line. However Im a great believer in leaving it on the field, which Warner didn't. But I don't think Warner is a thug or a bad person, but Ive got a sneaky suspicion he isn't the brightest crayon in the box.

Im aghast that Clarke was fined. Terrible call.

"law saying you cannot attack opposition players in the press"

He wasn't making personal attacks. He was questioning his ability against the short ball.

Nothing wrong with that.

If he's scoring hundreds he can say what he likes as long as it's not personal abuse.

All players look for weaknesses in the opposition whether it's the short ball, lbw, outside off or whatever.

All this pc nonsense that you can't say anything is a joke.

You must be just upset cause your bet looks like a dud.



yes mate the bet does look very shaky now. But that has absolutely nothing to do with my comment. As I said in my original posting, being a Aussie there could be far worse bets to lose.

There is a rule, I saw it flashed up on some news service, but obviously the powers that be agree with you in that the comment wasn't bad enough to warrant any action. And that to is fair enough. However Im a great believer in leaving it on the field. So regardless of what anyone else thinks, I think it was ordinary for Warner to come out and say it in the media.

There's a code of conduct that players, coaches and officials must adhere to. That sort of thing goes right down to grassroots cricket.

Grass Roots cricket eh? If it ever slips down through the bedrock into 'The Void' then it might start to have an effect on self promoting dunderheads such as yourself and that dunce, Tufnel!

Wow. A fourth post on a third different thread [at three different times in the one day], and alll about little ol' me.

Must have been a hell of a trip, Mrs. K.


Why don't they wear supports on their ankles when training and playing? The thin flexi ones provide good support and take 2 secs to put on.

Clark getting fined was political correctness gone mad.

The only thing against him was the microphone picked it up. A reprimand at best.

"Most people in the world don't like poms much. The Scots/Irish don't, the French/Germans don't, the rest of Europe ignore you. Australia doesn't like you, Americans barely know you exist and the rest of the world don't care about you guys."

What a childish load of drivel.
The ramblings of an 8 year old.Sort yourself out.

Patsy can't handle the truth. That's why he will never be liked on this forum.

He can't even put a sentence together let alone deal with the truth.

Have people completely forgotten the Bodyline series??????

The poms invented short pitched bowling and 80 years on are crying about it and can't handle the heat LOL

How ironic.

Or even more recently the Windies in the 70s and 80s.

The fact that Cook is bothered by these comments from Warner show his mind is focused on the wrong things and isn't in an attacking frame of mind.

That's a losing position for a captain. He better shake it off real quick.

"He's a very difficult fellow ... hates Australians and his special hate is now Bradman ... he says cruel things and his language is poor at times. Not often but he uses awful words at times in talking eg of Bradman."

Warner writing about Jardine in a letter to his wife in November 1932

"You can't go off while the little bastard''s in."
Jardine to Larwood after he had broken down in the final Test. He refused to allow a crippled Larwood to leave the field until Bradman was out. The two left the field together, albeit ignoring each other.

Here is a good link quezza, about why Clarke said what he said.

Don't choke on your hipocrisy while you read it.

Very true Rex.
Clarke has shown himself to be a strong leader from the outset. It would be great if the team could develop under him to the point we see how he goes with some ammunition. Taylor and Waugh were great captains and rightly lauded for their achievements as Captain yet they never faced the adversity that Clarke does.

I can't believe people are sooking about what Warner said. It's harmless banter unless it's true and they really are scared of fast bowling.

Just shows they aren't focused on the game if that sort of stuff upsets them.

Test cricket is a tough game and if the poms can't handle it, pack up and go home.

Yes Tiger and the way he punts, it doesn't last long.

Typically the Aussies are heard to be sledging and using disgraceful language on the field again with M Clarke telling Anderson to "get ready for a broken _ _ _ _ ing arm"

oh dear, Aussies are so vulgar and bogan, you only have to read the stuff on here to see that.

no class at all.

"oh dear, Aussies are so vulgar and bogan, you only have to read the stuff on here to see that.

no class at all."

Haha haha

Oh dear alright quez.

Dare I say your sooking like your country man.

Man up.


"Typically the Aussies are heard to be sledging and using disgraceful language on the field again with M Clarke telling Anderson to "get ready for a broken _ _ _ _ ing arm"

oh dear, Aussies are so vulgar and bogan, you only have to read the stuff on here to see that.

no class at all."

Yet again the tryhard, illiterate, bogan sook that is Onslow shows how clueless he is. I notice you have made no comment about Anderson telling Bailey he wanted to punch him in the face. Not one player or ex-player I've heard has said that what Clarke said was out of the ordinary - it's just that sensitive little ears like yours don't usually get to hear it.

WS, you are dead right - an excellent victory this time but they should come back hard at us if they're half as good as what they think they are.

"WS is spot on about clutch moments in Test matches; if the Poms get another wicket at 6/130 odd in our first innings the match is totally different IMHO."

Indeed. And often in Test match cricket you don't even realise they're clutch moments until well after the fact; a lucky escape which leads to a big score or an unlucky dismissal which triggers a collapse. How many games have we seen turned on their head in a session, or even a spell? Test match cricket is such a capricious sport, which is one of the things I love about it.

Although the advantage is now with Australia, especially after Trott's departure, I expect similar moments in the Tests ahead, and which way they break may well be decisive.

Well done rock chick, you only used the word onslow twice this time, and none of your typically daft LMFAO's ..great stuff.



I see you've decided to do nothing about your illiteracy problem Onslow. What a thick sooky bogan you are.

Sunday was not a good day for Quez.
He tipped the Poms to win the cricket and SIMENON to win the Japan Cup.

He's giving LostaClue a run for his money as the forum's biggest dud.

Maddinson isnt far away. They cant chop and change though tonto. The current lot should get 2 more tests and 1 change only max. You need stability.

I hope the selectors don't sit on their hands just because they have a win under their belt.

You don't want to break up a winning combination and all that but the team must develop and we must keep blooding young players. They have to think about succession and urgently. This team is old and until most recently chronically under performing particularly with the bat.

Chris Rogers did a good job of filling a hole in England but he's not the same batsman in Australia and not a long term prospect. Watson has to be on borrowed time. Smith applies himself well but I refuse to believe we can't do better. I hope Bailey secures his place because he will be the logical successor to Clarke as skipper if he can.

I don't like the idea of blooding young players at three but Watson seems to have job by default at present.

Maddinson has to be given a cap at some stage and Carters continues to impress.

It would be good to bring players like these into the side when it is competitive rather than when it is under the pump.

Gotta get rid of the Test Match thinking of 20 years ago

The game has changed,, no more of this holding up 1 end,, Carberry/Boycott/Tavare.. ?????

No more of 200 runs in a day, 300+ per day has become the Norm for Test Match cricket

Blud more 1 day batsmen as they come through the 20/20

Look at Warner,, Glad to see that he Opened his Mouth,, but followed it up with his batting

The win was welcomed but the score was a pleasant surprise to everyone.

Great win and sets up an exciting series ahead.
I still think the Aussies batting is a major cause of concern though.
I wish Dave Warner would just STFU.Real classy bagging a fellow professional in the media when he's down on confidence and form.Everything to lose and nothing to gain.By all means let him know how you feel out in the middle if that's how you roll but to come out in public with those comments is quite arrogant a disappointing IMO.

Mitchell Johnson 9/103 at 11.5, 103 runs at 103.0 Man of the Match

An excellent way for MJ to start the series especially considering where he was 12 months ago.

The bowling coaches will be happy. Good to see Craig McDermott back at the helm.

The senior men carried the day, the team played the sort of cricket Darren Lehmann promised.

And the Queensland crowd was right behind them.

This will test England's mettle. The series is alive. Long live Test cricket.

Mitchell Johnson 9/103 at 11.5, 103 runs at 103.0 Man of the Match

An excellent way for MJ to start the series especially considering where he was 12 months ago.

The bowling coaches will be happy. Good to see Craig McDermott back at the helm.

The senior men carried the day, the team played the sort of cricket Darren Lehmann promised.

And the Queensland crowd was right behind them.

This will test England's mettle. The series is alive. Long live Test cricket.

Well done to the Aussie and Mitch Johnson on the Man of the Match. He really put the fear of God into the English batsmen and made some runs.

P.S It was also good to see Jimmy Anderson can give it but he should couldn't handle the trash talking when it can back his way

"It was also good to see Jimmy Anderson can give it"

I know what a sook.

"Get ready for a %$*#[email protected] broken arm!" LOL

Great stuff.

Swann to go home soon with an "injury"not sure what the official injury will be but I think we all know that it is a severely pulled heart muscle.
Did not look comfortable.


"Don't over rate yourself quez.

We aren't superior.

You are inferior.

Stick to board games mate."


Good to see Onslow franks the form of Jimmy Anderson and other soap dodgers in being able to dish it out but not take it. He was already well and truly the thickest on the site, but Onslow is now ahead in the forum's biggest sook stakes. Well done Patsy on showing some class.

What an amazing performance, particularly by Mitch, but Clarke's dig in the 2nd innings was also match defining. What odds Australia to win by well over 300 runs when we were 6/130 on the first morning - perhaps the (in)famous 500/1 would have been on offer?!

Seems they both know more about real cricket than you Quezza. But I would say you would be a shoe in to know more about the board game test cricket than the pair of them :)

Well that was an absolute drubbing I doubt anyone saw coming.

Some questions.

Can the Aussies back it up?
Can Mitchell Johnson back it up?
Can the Poms regroup?

Recent history says no, no and yes.

Perhaps recent history is out the window for this series?

The Aussie bowling attack certainly looked better than the English on a decent cricket wicket.

The second test will tell us a lot.

"Perhaps recent history is out the window for this series?"

Aussies outplayed the poms in the last 3 tests 60% of the time. They just failed in the big moments.

Here they have fire in their belly, home ground advantage and Warner firing at the top.

Swann was a big factor in England but his Aussie avg isn't very good - about 40 last series here and didn't do much in test 1.

Broad is a gun bowler under all conditions while Anderson is better under English conditions as the ball swings more.

Their third seamer options are only steady.

I think we have a better attack under Aussie conditions so as long as Warner and Clarke fire we can win. If they fail then the pressure is on the other 4 batsmen to stand up and that's our weak spot.

So the poms can win but they need to get Warner and Clarke early otherwise that can really pile on the runs and do it really fast as we have seen.

Only Pietersen can bat like those 2.

Great win indeed.

However several of you highlight our concerns going forward.

Can Warner and Mitch back it up again.....and again?

Need runs from Rogers Watson & Bailey.

The Poms can't be that bad again.

WS is spot on about clutch moments in Test matches; if the Poms get another wicket at 6/130 odd in our first innings the match is totally different IMHO.

Even if he's not 100% I love the fact they went after Swann and kept going.

We cannot rest though - we need to keep going at them.

Can't wait for the next Test.


It's not all good news for the Aussies. Only 2 specialist batsmen fired.

Big question marks on

Watson - fitness and mindset? The poms have worked him out with the straight fields and bowling. He's a rather limited batsman.

Rogers - 2nd inning made a start then gives it up with a weak shot like that. Needs to support Warner more.

Smith - Is he a test batsman?

Bailey - Woeful run out mistake that played Cook into form and looked shaky in both innings.

The other 7 players all fired and need to continue to do so to keep going.

For mine Warner and Clarke need 3 centuries each for the Aussies to win this series because the rest of the batting is highly suss apart from Haddin and you can't rely on the 7 to dig you out too often.

Also the coin toss is crucial - we win 3 out of 5 and Warner/Clarke fire we win the Ashes.

The bowling attack looks very well balanced and solid. Great to see MJ bowl quick but the other 3 provide the steady consistent bowling that is needed at this level.

Aussies 3
Poms 1

Lock it in Eddy.

Nope never said you were washed up just under performing..been a good weekend for the aussies, well done, enjoy it.


Although I have no doubt England will be far tougher in Adelaide, Melbourne & Sydney, they are in all sorts of trouble in Perth if there is anything like the usual bounce. My bet looks in all sorts of trouble, but like Ive won some good £ on the Poms recently and I won't be complaining if we win back the Ashes. However a drawn series would be a bit devastating :)

On another note- not long ago you will telling all in sundry Australia was washed up as a sporting nation.

We just won the World Cup of Golf, n.o 2 golf player in the world who is likely to grab the 1 spot the way things are going.

Cricket team have just embarrassed England and lead an Ashes series.

Rugby league side are into yet another World Cup final.

Rugby Union side are a work in progress and still a bit below par to be honest- but they have only lost one game thus far on their NH tour.

There will always be highs and lows, but I doubt very much Australia will ever drop of the radar as a sporting nation- not in my life time.

'But I would say you would be a shoe in to know more about the board game test cricket than the pair of them :)'

LOL ... Yes, Quez the 'Test Match' champ of primary school.

Don't you just love the air of superiority Lister and Nigel prance about here with when it comes to cricket, it really is quite sickening.

Don't over rate yourself quez.

We aren't superior.

You are inferior.

Stick to board games mate.

Full credit to Australia.

Totally outplayed England
and baring rain sets us up for a wonderful series.

I must be going soft as I truly enjoyed seeing Australia up there game.

Congrats guys.

Thank you Dex

Quez, learn the rules of cricket.

The umpires have to get in position by the time the clock strikes for lunch. It doesn't matter how the fielding try to rush, or the batting side try to stall (or vice versa). The umps were in position and the over proceeded as per the rules.

Last series in England, the Poms jeered the Aussies all the time. Everytime the Aussies asked for a review and it was turned down the crowd would fake appeal after every remaining ball of the over.

Don't try to take the high moral ground here after everything that happened in England.

Weight Special Send message to this user
Subject: Re: Ashes to Ashes

Time: 22/11/2013 3:39:51 PM


Hahaha arrogant plodders need 2 days of rain to get out of this. Prior is also a cheat lol

Without cheating and bad decisions the pommie sooks cant win

Aussies 1.05 favs to win here


Yeah errrr who holds the ashes as of now clown features..??

Deary me, you take a few wickets and then start chest beating Bk would be proud of..

Well done Mitchell Johnson. No one has worked harder on his game (or needed to) than MJ and he deserved a day out particularly after his innings.

And it is beginning to look like Stuart Broad has kept England in the match. The rest of them haven't turned up. They'll need to.

This is a shamed Australian batting order desperate for redemption and their bowlers have given them the golden opportunity for it.

Relic,,,,,,, Here's yore Answer to Ozzie Cricket

Would Ewe accept a Captain of an AFL team going into a Grandfinal with an Injury

And yet in Cricket, it is acceptable to take Injured, suspect players into an Ashes Test Match, Clarke, Watson etc....

Why not have a Fresh,, ready to Go, fully Fit 11 players

How long has Ozzie Cricket relied on the Bowlers in a Last Ditch effort to 'Save the Team'

Butt wot wood I Nose,, I'm only a Punter

I'm gunna go and Train Mr Rabbot in the Art of Indonesian Diplomacy

Aussies cheating by playing into lunch time, between that and their bad sportsmanship of booing Broad, what a disgrace.

How is playing lunch time cheating? The umpires were in position in time.

The loser quez is ignorant about yet another sport.

These poms r such sore losers.

Thanks Rex :)

Haddin run-out 94, that would have to be the dopiest wicket I've ever seen, oi it's not one day cricket

deary me.


England best price 7/12 to win the series- 11/10 was a ridiculous price and you don't need to be a genius to work out 11/10 is already a winning bet even allowing for an unlikely drawn series.

Trott gives it away last over pre lunch lol

Aussies back in front

Batting first is worth 70 runs last innings they can win this

Hence why I found Rex's crowing re odds bizzare.

Many twists to come.

"Aussies cheating..."

Forgotten Broads' 5 minute mystery shoe complaint?



you will find its the umpires who decide when to call lunch. Carberry copped a gob full of the aussies when leaving for lunch for not protecting Trott by doing some time wasting.

Had to laugh at KP being punked on the boundary- classic.


One thing I would say- I do like it when Beefy Botham is in the commentary box during a England batting collapse :)


Im not crowing Patsy- I was quantifying my stance on the series and I still think England will win it- although the Eng batting collapse to that extent was a bit unexpected, don't you think!!.

Hahaha arrogant plodders need 2 days of rain to get out of this. Prior is also a cheat lol

Without cheating and bad decisions the pommie sooks cant win

Aussies 1.05 favs to win here


That should be your topic of choice more often quez. With your inside knowledge and experience in the field you have it covered.

Well done quez.

Dopey is as dopey does.

One session doesn't make a series but it's nice to see the English out of their comfort zone and vulnerable. At some point in this series the Aussie batting is going to cause problems and hand the ascendancy to England but at least they know their opposition have a few chinks as well.

Ryan Harrris is a great bowler.

Mitch is hit or miss and it pains me that his batting helps keep him in the team but he showed yesterday the natural talent he has and how devastating he can be when it all clicks.

Righto. We can now add 'Cricket' to the list titled 'Things quez knows very little about'.


Broad tearing holes through your top order, Rogers LOL, Warner out playing a one day shot, Captain Clarke clueless and distracted, Haddin and Johnson muttering and grizzling "why do we have to do all the work all the time"...ahhh the Ashes, ya gotta love em.


Agree fully Relic

I said before I've learn a lot about the game of cricket from the people here who have played at a much higher level than I. I'd like to ask a question of you guys and get your thoughts.

Do you think the Australia higher order batsmen have forgotten the art of playing test match cricket? It looks like they go out and try and smash the ball all over and make huge scores. Test match cricket is about the art of playing for 5 days not just one day or 20/20.

If Brad Haddin wants to know when he lost the interest of Australians I can pinpoint exactly when it happened.

It is when we stopped calling it the game of cricket or the sport of cricket, and started calling it the brand of cricket.

Lost this Australian at least.

I would like to see the Ashes become a Country of Origin series.

Warner has a higher batting avg in 1st class and Tests. Haddin played great today but he's 36yo and there's not much left in him. Warner could play for another 10 years and lift his average to around 45/46. His current avg of 36 is a bit low but opening is hard and he's coming into his prime now.

Watson at age 32 with an avg of 36 is a bigger concern. He's had years to lift his game and he's still stuffing around.

I'd drop Watson long before Warner.

Woeful innings from watson. Nothing shot before lunch. Warner played great thus far. Being the 2nd best batsman rather silly to say he shouldnt be playing.


I'm not convinced Warner is our 2nd best batsman - after Clarke they're a bunch of pretty ordinary players all averaging <40. Haddin is as good if not better at test level!


England have won the last 3 series including 3-1 when last in Australia. Australia have won 1 of the last 10 tests played between the nations. There hasn't been a drawn series between these 2 nations for 40 years. England have a world class spinner and a world class opening bowler with a batting line up her mostly average around 50, not 40. Australia have had plenty of in house fighting since the last Ashes. (I could go on).

Thank goodness some of the firms are as bad at pricing up Test Cricket as you are Patsy- 11/10 was a ridiculously good price- hence the bet.

We now have a wicket keeper and a bowler saving our arzes. And England, after only one day, are now best price 5/6 to win the series.

I have no doubt the aussies will win some sessions here and there, but overall England will just be to good- the form book doesn't lie.

As stated I think they'll edge it Rex.

I had 500 on them

Not in your 2k league
but a nice investment.

Home soil should make it closer.

2 wins each for mine, unfortunately will not be enough to get the urn back

Clearly It's your best chance to win the ashes back but you lot wouldn't be super confident would you..?

Homeground adavantge or not, your team has no solidarity or soul at the moment.'s going to be BARMY ARMY TIME..!!!

Aussie top 4 needs to fire otherwise no chance again. But if they do, they have the bowlers to win.

Warner and Watson need to really pour on the runs.


All jokes aside- Ive had 2K on England to win the series at 11/10. I think its a bet I will be collecting on. But won't be overly upset if I don't.

should be a close series in australia..

fancy england to edge it,11/10 odds seems about right.

Good days play today.

Typical Aussie pitch. A bit of juice in it early and then in the second half of the day flattening out to a good batting strip. The truck is to get through the first two sessions and then make hay on the second day when it's at its best. Our middle order again the big problem. Unable to weather the storm and set it up. Glad Bailey got his chance but still not sure if he can transfer his 50/50 and 20/20 form. Haddin great as he has been many times when the teams in strife. The problem is he did this consistently in England and the same state of affairs may play out here. Makes us look good when it comes off but if Haddin and the tail don't fire, we look pretty ordinary at times. Can't be continually relying on number 7 to save the day. I'm hopeful this series will be better for Australia. Not at all
Confident though. They are better than us and know it.

Rogers gone. Looked very nervous. Warner is playing shots at least. Good toss to win if they can get thru to lunch no more than 2 down.


The first test is absolutely crucial - lose and we're no chance to regain the urn, win and we're some hope. Main reason for this is that the new Adelaide wicket looks to be a batting paradise so I'm tipping a draw there and going into Perth 1-0 up or down is huge.

As it is, with the weather in Brissy atm it's likely to be a draw there too.

Watson and Harris' fitness throughout the series is a massive factor. Really terrible for Oz that 3 of our young quicks are injured as I reckon they'd give their top order a bit of a hurry up on our decks - hopefully Johnson can regain his form of the South African series in '09 and do it in their place.

I've actually started thinking that slow Davey Warner is a plant for the opposition - does nothing himself and then provides motivation for them. Absolute peanut who shouldn't be anywhere near test selection.

I'm tipping 2-1 to the to and froms.

The Aussies may have to draw straws to see who gets thrown to the wolves if they fail to impress at the Gabba.

Don't like any of our current players and don't really care who wins.

I think you have summed up the feeling of much of the country Count and no amount of artsy advertising is going recover the the faith of the fans - only solid performances in the middle will do that.

Haddin's comments are interesting because he was absent from the side during much of the 'reformation' under Micky and walked back into it when the damage had been done.

I don't mean to single Arthur out. I still have Jake Howard squarely in the cross hairs and the rest of the Cricket Australia suits who white boarded this team into oblivion.

The disaffection of the Australian cricket public about this team isn't simply because it doesn't win. There other expectations that this team hasn't met that makes the public not like and don't care about them.

Here's hoping that they can recover something from the ashes.

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