Ten Best Horses Ever

greyshot
A line that someone used recently in another post got me thinking......10 best horse ever, it is a daunting task, after my first attempt I looked at the list and thought I've left an important one off the list ??? MANIKATO !
Here's my list but you could easily come up with another 10.
Phar Lap
Kingston Town
Tulloch
Sunline
Notherly
Lets Elope
Bernborough
Manikato
Super Impose
Dulcify
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How times have changed...

No Gary. Nothing has changed. For more than two years both Khap and myself have been asking who are the best wfa horses in Australia besides Winx and all we have received is a stony silence from you. I have been overseas for a few months and I see Khap has not been posting so obviously you thought it was safe to stick your noggin up and make out like this was a subject you are interested in.

Winx has gone and although racing is competitive in Australia it is still just dud versus dud,

So tell us Gary, who are the best Aussie wfa horses now Winx has been retired from dud bashing.

 

Gladys,

I provided the names of 20 horses about 6 months ago. Just pick from those.

Maybe you're expecting Australia to produce a champion like Winx every year?

Just a guess as I'm a young tacker:

Tulloch
Phar Lap
Bernborough
Kingston Town
Peter Pan
Ajax
Might & Power
Wakeful
Northerly
Manikato

What's with the negative attitude here today? We are all alive. We all have this fantastic sport to follow. The great Northerly might be coming back. We've just seen an exciting bunch of two year olds. The Poo has won another match for Australia. First day of summer. We live in the best country in the world. A lot of us live in the best city in the world.

Put on Outkast's "Hey Ya", real loud, and relax. Be cool. Signing off.

1. Carbine (yep, I rate this guy's record superior to that of the mighty 'red terror')

2. Phar Lap

3. Tulloch

4. Kington Town (still the best I've seen beyond a mile)

5. Peter Pan

6. Rising Fast

7. Vain

8. Amounis (who you might ask.....ran in an age which included Phar Lap, Limerick, Nightmarch & Mollison...winning races such as the Cox Plate, Caulfield Cup, 2 Epsoms, 2 Emirate Stks, Rosehill Guineas etc.)

9. Manikato (best sprinter I've seen)

10. Ajax ...very tough for the final slot...can't have Bernborough....think too many people get caught up in the way he won his races....his record doesn't stack up any better than the likes of Tie The Knot....Beau Vite & Chatham must've been mighty horses, as was Eurythmic, Gloaming, Hydrogen, Limerick, Sky High, Tranquil Star; & I feel Dulcify was heading for greatness before tragedy struck....but I'm plumping for Ajax with 33 group wins ranging from 6 furlongs up to 1.5 mile over 4 years - he won the Champagne Stks (when it was Sydney's equivalent to the Slipper at the time) along with the Sires. He then went on in the spring to clinch the Rosehill Guineas & Caulfield Guineas. The following year he captured races such as the Cox Plate, Caulfield Stks, Mackinnon Stks, the All Aged, Futurity, what is now known as the Emirates Stks, along with the Newmarket Hcp & another 6 group races. He won a further 8 group races the following year, & 7 'groupies' again in 1940!!!

Remember - history does not judge who you beat or how you did it, but what you won.....

How on earth can you compare horses of 80 odd years ago along with the modern era horse racing.... Far out you guys are insane to even try... the only lists that could be posted are best 10 horses you have ever seen.... Otherwise what are you taking it on, their record?? Phar Lap and co who have 1,400,000 starts for 1,399,995 wins and raced over 900 meters one day then backed up in a 5000 meter marathon the next dont really count as racing back then was so different, I suggest you guys read about how racing was back then in a book called "history of australian racing"....

Cheers

The idea of the original post was to get people started about evaluating who was Australia's 10 Best ever. I never expected total agreement but I was interested to see just how diverse a list of nominations would be put forward.

I said in the original post that I was putting forward 10 names but that I was happy to concede that you could easily nominate a completely different 10 (that would all be worthy nominees). I agree that comparing past eras with today is difficult but not impossible because so many of our races are "time honoured."

On that point does any body know what the equivalent prizemoney total for horses like Carbine, Phar Lap and Ajax would be in todays dollars ? Phar Laps total would have to be right up there with Sunline and Northerly surely ? He won Derbies, Melbourne Cup, Melbourne Plate (McKinnon ?), and What would be the prizemoney today for the equivalent standard of US race that he won ? $2m ? $4m ?

I also hoped (in vain) that it would put the ongoing Northerly Vs Sunline in context. Whilst they were great horses of their time I don't think anybody has put them in their top 2 or 3. (and I think Lonhro only got one nomination, surprising considering the support he has received on other forum topics ?)

A few more names to consider Gay Icarus, Ethereal and if not for poor rides from Shane Dye we might be nominating Veandercross (trained by a "back yarder").


MOD: Post edited.

greyshot - it's a good thread so don't be discouraged. I think it shows that there will NEVER be agreement on the N v S conundrum however (is that a bad thing?).

I think someone on here has done the $$$ calculations you mentioned so maybe you could try a search. If memory serves me right Kingston Towns prizemoney in today's terms is about $16M... so Phar Lap's will be pretty amazing you can assume!

Bald Fright,

Sunline was the better horse - stands out like your ugly noggin.

PINKLINE

1. Phar Lap
2. Kingston Town
3. Tulloch
4. Carbine
5. Tobin Bronze
6. Rising Heights
7. Dulcify
8. Galilee
9. Might And Power
10. Manikato

Some of the pretenders of recent years wouldn't be allowed within cooee of the King's stall, let alone be spoken in the same conversation.

Bell, Kingston Town's record in equated $$ was just behind Sunlines done at the time of her career end if I recall a artical I read in the newspaper last year...
Cheers, and I am not sh*tcanning discussion just stating that people that have Phar Lap, Carbine and co on top of their lists are going purely on what they think they know about a horse that raced 80 odd years ago, think their records would look a little more standardised in todays racing ie. still great horses but not on top of your lists I bet, the longer ago it is the better it was...

I'll add a horse who's record has always suggested to me he must have been one of the greatest- Sky High.

A quick break down of his record and there are Group 1s at every season, at 2 3 4 5 and 6.
Group 1s from 1000m to 2500m.
None of the so called 'big 3' but everything in between, from the slipper to the last ranvet in 4 full seasons of racing he managed 15 equivalent G1s.

There are others besides the famed 5! This wasn't a horse of the 1890s racing the best of a small pool of thoroughbreds, he was in with the tullochs, todmans, aquanitas, and lords of the late 50s - early 60s.

In order, on record alone but trying to account for the competition:
Phar Lap
Ajax
Kingston Town
Tulloch
Manikato
Sky High
Sunline
Gloaming
Limerick
Beau Vite




Rambo,

Your maths are totally flawed. Northerly carried 2.5kgs more than Sunline and ran track records even over 1600m. So he has to be at least 2 lengths superior if not more.

2000m ratings indicate 1.66 lengths plus 1-1.5 lengths = 2.66 - 3.16 lengths.......

over 1600m there was little b/t them at wfa, but at level weights Northerly is superior.

over 2400m northerly would be a 5 length better horse at least.

better luck next time......




Ian Thorpe would have Dawn Fraser by a pool length Speedy, does that make her less a champion and him more one?

The mighty Sunline will long be remembered a champion, as will Northerly!

1 Sunline (NZ)
2 Fairy King Prawn (AUS)
3 Adam (AUS)
4 New Trumps (IRE)
5 Electronic Unicorn (USA)
6 Billion Win (AUS)
7 Charming City (AUS)
8 Testa Rossa (AUS)
9 Sugarfoot (GB)
10 Native Desert (USA)
11 Charge D´Affaires (GB)
12 One Won One (USA)
13 Faberger (GER)
14 Last Resort (GB)

This is the field for the Hong Kong Mile race Sunline won by a short head from Fairy King Prawn,now I know you can only beat what is there in front of you,but this is an extremely weak Group 1 race,the European horses are G3 at best and started at 100/1..the rest is filled with Aus horses she beat over and over back home..Fairy King Prawn was just a good horse,to call FKP an all time great based on once coming second to Jim And Tonic(another good not great horse) would be laughable,if you are judging Sunlines greatness around this race in Hong Kong..dont..its average at best..

Patsy

You gotta like someone who comes to a discussion forum to s*itcan... discussion. Good one mate!

Having a quick look at all the posts, it would seem that we should change the thread to the Five Best Aust Horses Ever

Phar Lap
Kingston Town
Tulloch
Berborough
Manikato

These horses were all mentioned equally but a long way in front of any other...

Cheers
Dave75

Thats exactly right about sunlines longevity being appreciated more in ten years or so when this other garbage has died down. Black type wins from 2 - 7 says it all.
Northerly, what can you say about him? top horse as well. Sensationally consistent at further than a mile. Late starter but certainly fired when it counted from late 4 till early 6.
Will be vert interesting to see where history places these two in 15years when people can get past the one eyed-ness.

What about Vain, Ajax, Wakeful and about 30 others that you could have in there ahead of Sunline and Northerly who should not be that high.
I don't think much thought was put in to this list if you ask me. I think you've just named horses that you know of.

Better Loosen Up should be in there before Super Impose, Let's Elope and Dulcify.

In no particular order.

Phar Lap

Kingston town

Tulloch

Northerly

Galilee

Bernborough

Vain

Wakeful

Better loosen Up

Manikato

Oli

Here's my crack at it...

Unequivocally in: Phar Lap, Tulloch, Kingston Town, Bernborough, Peter Pan, Rising Fast, Wakeful and Manikato.

Last two spots between: Might and Power, Ajax, Vain, Northerly, Gloaming, Tobin Bronze, Better Loosen Up and Delta or Todman.

One horse I left out of the maybes that should certainly be there: Galilee.

oh dear, not again...

Spot on except i would swap northerly with sunline.

Oli

maybe it should be top 20

In no particular order

Carbine
Kingston Town
Sunline
Tulloch
Peter Pan
Bernborough
Gunsynd
Rising Fast
Manikato
Red Anchor

Pinkline,
did you purposefully leave out Phar Lap? I hope not, or the credibilityometer = 0. Don't worry, I think you got away with it. Nobody seems to have noticed and I won't say anything!
Anyway here's my 2 bobs' worth. Before you all jump down my throat I through the last two in because of their work O/S. Probably showing my age, or lack thereof as well. If pushed I would have to put Tulloch on top. Only because my late uncle told me at least a million times what champion he was and the best he ever saw. The man was usually a pretty good judge.

Bernborough
Carbine
Kingston Town
Manikato
Might & Power
Octagonal
Phar Lap
Tulloch
Strawberry Road
BLU

Always thought you were an imbecile Pinkbits, thanks for confirming it.
Red Anchor, you have fair dinkum gotta be kidding.
He won 9 from 14 and never raced past 3 years, won the Cox Plate beating another 3 year old, Street Cafe and the unforgetable always talked about WFA Champion King Delamere...WHO ? never heard of him.

Mustn't forget his 4 length win in the Vic Derby defeating 2 other wonderful 3 year olds National Gallery and Clovelly Bay, remember them ? no, neither do I ( a bag of chaff and a pair of spiked boots and I reckon I could have beaten those 2, probably by 5 )

You'd be the only one here who'd rate Red Anchor above the likes of Super Impose, Better Loosen Up, Dulcify, Strawberry Road, just to name a few, but then again you're an imbecile.

VO ROT,

I don't care what you think of me but let me sink you like the Titanic once again. Talk about "Six Months in a Leaky Boat" - for you its been a lifetime.

Yes I know when Red Anchor retired and all that jazz but he was incredible in the Spring onf 84 capturing the Moonee Valley Stakes, Caulfield Guineas, Cox Plate and Derby. You reckon you could have beaten National Gallery do you mate. Aha - and also Ali at his peak I would imagine. Deary me.

TJ Smith had an enormous opinion of the Anchor and his Derby win was the most comprehensive probably since Tulloch - it was a great performance and that opinion was shared by people more expert than you - which includes EVERYONE. If you're arguing that a horse was better because it had race more and won more then that's not where I'm coming from. Red was one of the best horses I have seen period and had he raced would have gone on to cement his place as an immortal.

So put the kettle on Vo and make yourself another cuppa to soothe your shattered nerves.

PINKLINE JONES

M & P should be in there.
Always won the big races.
He was a freak!
That caulfield cup run was amazing!

M&P should be in the list?

Take another puff of the crackpipe.

He won the Caulfield Cup with the featherweight of 52.5kgs against a pack of out of form camels. The fact he ran track record time means diddly given Diatribe knocked 0.9 seconds off it when he won a year or so later.

I was more impressed with his Melbourne Cup win, myself, but really tate field was absolutely woeful too (though not as comparatively bad as his Cox Plate in what must be the worst field of the last 30 years in that race).

I think this year's Co Plate was the worst ever.

Might and Power didn't beat much, but it was the way he beat them that counts.
He led, broke track records, is only the 2nd horse ever to win all 3 BIG RACES and the only other horse to win the Cox Plate after the Melbourne Cup was Phar Lap, if you ask me, Might and Power is in the top 8 pushing for the top 5.
Ajax, Vain and Wakeful all need to be in there, The big 3 have the top 3 spots, Kingston Town and The Man taking 4th and 5th. Better Loosen Up and Might and Power 6th and 7th.
You can pick your order, but using that you'll come up with the real top ten

how can u compare a top sprinter with a top 2000m horse?

everyone above has based their post on emotions and who their fav top horses were! lol

these lists must be so reliable (not)

if anyone could provide a RATINGS rundown of why u have chosen your horses that would mean something, otherwise it's like asking someone what their fav colour is?


So where's your list Speedy?

Don't think Speedy's database stretches back past Jan 2002, could prove a tough assignment for him.

The First Five are easy, assuming this is a list of Australasia's best

Carbine - by far the best when you take his breeding influence into account (and there is no rule that says you shouldn't)

Phar Lap

Tulloch

Bernborough

Kingston Town.

Then it gets real hard becuase you have those horses in the distant past like The Barb and Malua and Wakeful but I'd plump for

Todman

Heroic(both of these again taking the breeding influence into account with a split hair to Vain)

Manikato

Gloaming

Sunline

I have a preference for longevity (Todman and Heroic's breeding influence gets them over this hump but Todman, while he didn't run much won as a 2,3 and 5 or 6 year old) and an ability to win a large percentage of races run. Gloaming's record is just too awesome to ignore regardless of the period he ran. Manikato has the greatest record of any sprinter produced in this country.

When all the Northerly v Sunline business calms down people will look back in wonder at her record, what she did over a long period of time in the era it was done is phenomenal

And there are several hundred horses for whom a decent argument for inclusion can be mounted.
An argument in which there is no possible room for ratings. Its about passion.

have to agree on the top 5 there formercreeker.

Well done formercreeker, at least Flatline can be comforted that there is one other person alive who thinks Sunline should be on the list. Just the one though!

Bell,
You have mentioned 18 horses & still can't find a place for Sunline. I would suggest YOU are in the minority.

Name one of them and I will tell you why Sunline was not as good!

I'll do better than that Bell & give you nine from your list. I await your reasoned, thoroughly reseached analysis with great anticipation.
Bernborough
Manikato
Might & Power
Vain
Northerly
Tobin Bronze
Better Loosen Up
Delta
Todman

My selections are, in alphabetical order are:-
Bernborough (from a limited career)
Carbine
Kingstown Town
Manikato
Might & Power
Peter Pan
Phar Lap
Sunline
Tulloch
Wakeful

With an honourable mention to:-
Better Loosen Up
Dulcify
Northerly
Super Impose

My selections are, in alphabetical order are:-
Bernborough (from a limited career)
Carbine
Kingstown Town
Manikato
Might & Power
Peter Pan
Phar Lap
Sunline
Tulloch
Wakeful

With an honourable mention to:-
Better Loosen Up
Dulcify
Northerly
Super Impose

Bell

Northerly was at most a half length superior 2000m horse, and an inferior miler than Sunline. She has a far better overall record, could carry weight and won overseas. Yet in your one-eyed wisdom you include Northerly on your list and excude Sunline.

Some things never change!!

Rambo. Northerly beat Sunline over 1600 at MV , in the Feehan Stakes. Hardly inferior..

Estes

I suggest you take a look at Sunline's mile record. Taking into account the opposition she beat and her wieghts carried, how could you possibly say that Northerly was the better miler because he beat her by a NECK in the only time they met over the distance??

Sunline

Doncaster - twice (and 1 second)
All Aged - twice
Hong Kong Mile
Feehan - (and 1 second)
Kewney
Angus Armanasco
Flight Stakes

Northerly

Railway
Feehan
Craiglee
Carlyon Cup

Enough said!!!

Rambo - and when was Northerly, unlike Sunline, ever really set for a mile race?

Bell

Give me a break!!

So now you are saying that IF Northerly was set for mile races he would have a better record than her. Do you honestly believe Northerly could win a Doncaster carrying 2kgs above wfa?? Remember, this is held in Sydney. I wouldn't mention Freemason in the same breath as Northerly, yet he was able to beat him by a small margin at wfa, in a race Northerly was set for.

Horses are remembered for what they have achieved, not what they could have achieved. I firmly believe that Northerly could have won overseas, but the reality is, that Sunline has been there and done it. Just like she was able to have 50 starts, over 6 seasons injury free, and win 2 out of every 3.

Im just saying that they met once over 1600 with Northerly the victor. Yeah she has a better record for sure, but that still doesnt make her a better miler than Northerly.

Rambo, your credibility (what's left of it after Speedy ripped your ratings to pieces) goes out the window with that dumb "Northerly couldn't win in Sydney, couldn't beat Freemason. If Northerly had been trained to peak in mile races, of course he could have won them. Even Gary Still has said this in the past!

Rambo, u r struggling to make any sense at all.

Sunline just beat Shogun Lodge at level weights, putting her 0.5kgs in front of Shogun.

Northerly beat Sunline carrying 2.5kgs more and also holds the Caulfield 1600m which will stand for a long time.

What would Northerly have done to Shogun at level weights??????????

Super Impose and Shaftesbury Ave were better milers than Sunline anyway.

It's funny how u Sunline groupies accuse Bell Flight of being one eyed when that's exactly what u lot are.

He might be biased but no more than u lot of groupies and at least he has the facts and figures on his side.

All u groupies have is hype and emotion.

Yes professor, Ian Thorpe is a much better swimmer than Dawn Fraser and horses are a different story to people anyway.

Dumber and Gonzalez,

No one gives a hoot about the Caulfield 1600m track record - this has been explained in simple English (with the idea that you MIGHT be able to understand something once in your rodent life) - the track records mean ZILCH.

What would the Trolley done to Shogun at level weights? Well in Sydney at least Shogun had him done like a dinner. If Shaftesbury was a better miler than Sunline then where is that horse's Doncaster victories? and where is Super's Hong Kong mile? You are as thick as the cesspit lifestyle that consumes you.

PINKLINE JONES





Right on cue!!

We have a response from Speedy

From my "corner" that you have so savagely forced me into, I ask you one question: why, unlike every other person who has contributed to this thread, have you not been able to post a considered top ten list? Even the biggest picker and whinger on this site (that's you Kicker) has been able to do that!!!

Yes Bell, but it was you who falsely attacked my credibility in the first instance.

My list in no particular order

Carbine
Phar Lap
Ajax
Wakeful
Bernborough
Tulloch
Kingston Town
BLU
Might and Power
Sunline/Northerly


After all that, we are largely in agreement!

is that your best comeback rambo???
change to name to limp.......

Speedy

"Bell has the facts and figures on his side" does he??. That's exactly what he doesn't have if he is arguing that Northerly was a superior miler. Where are Northerly's two Doncasters and HK Mile??

Although, I shouldn't need to provide a comeback to someone who can't comprehend why the wfa scale exists??

Some things are just too difficult!!

We can and have gone on forever about sunline vs northerly.
The facts are that Northerly never lost to Sunline and they were both great horses.

Northerly had/has only been to Sydney once, at the end of the prep after racing in Melbourne's WFA races.

NORTHERLY WITH 58KGS
SUNLINE WITH 58KGS

3 races over 1600m
3 races over 2000m
3 races over 2400m

who wins all the races??

Which horse is superior?

If u have trouble with that logic, give up punting and never set foot on a racetrack again.

dont want to add to the argument because i think both were great horses, but ratings like timeform and globeform are calculated on wfa but fail to take into account the mares allowance, ie based on level weights for a 5yo mare and a 5yo horse. timeform rated both horses 129 while globeform rated northerly 125 sunline 127. on these ratings both agencies rated sunline equal or slightly superior at level weights.

as i said though both horse were awesome. i believe at a mile sunline was superior. at a mile and a quarter, while her 2000 cox plate win was awesome, i would probably put northerly ahead.

I think you have put an end to this argument with that post speeds. There is no realistic argument that can be pro sunline on level weights from a mile up. Not at all am i trying to downgrade such a wonderful racehorse but where would the argument be if they never met each other. Surely northerlys 1 on 1 record with the mare while each time conceding her weight should tell you all something. She was outstanding he was just that bit better.

rambo, so winning one doncaster with no weight and another at the same weight as shogun lodge means a great deal does it??

the hk mile race has less depth than the doncaster and is the weaker race on that day!

fkp was a backmarker and there were no good leaders in that race other than sunline - basic handicapping must be just too hard for u to understand.

as childs said northerly beat sunline at her best and he had 2.5kgs more!!!!!

the wfa scale was created cause it is generally accepted that MARES ARE INFERIOR - do u disagree with this???

If the mares aren't inferior then how come u keep hiding behind the WFA scale which u dont understand???

If mares are inferior then how is it u rate Sunline superior to a horse that beat her carrying 2.5kgs more?

Your logic and maths are very poor.

Next you will be telling us Karrie Webb is better than Greg Norman cause she won more majors!!!

LOL




Speedy

I don't even know why I am entering into this ridiculous wfa argument with you.

Males are obviously blessed with more physical ability, strength etc. This is why the wfa scale exists - to make it a LEVEL playing field for all horses. It takes a very good mare to compete successfully against the males.

I will use the same analogy that others have used to explain it to you. Patrick Johnson can run faster than Marion Jones because he is a male. But who is the greater champion?? Some sort of handicap would need to be put in place to compare their respective abilities to make up for their physical difference

All time great horse should be recognised for their champion qualities. They are able to demonstrate ability that transcends their physical limitations. Sunline is more physically limited than Northerly because she is female, and therefore fairness provides that she carry less weight at wfa.

Sunline beat Shogun Lodge at level weights despite being at a physical disadvantage due to being female.

In Northerly's six attempts to carry more than wfa he has won once in a listed race at Belmont. I therefore find it very hard to believe that he could have won one Doncaster Handicap, let alone two.

You are on the right track Rambo, but heading in the wrong direction. The reason mares have an allowance under WFA scale is not to compensate for them being SLOWER than the males, it is to compensate for them being generally SLIGHTER, not as STRONG and less able to carry weight.

Think of the analogy of Marion Jones versus an OK male runner in a 100 metre sprint. They are evenly matched as sprinters, so they have a competitive race. Great. But think of them both in a 100 metre sprint when they both have to carry a little person on their back. Suddenly, the bloke starts winning. (The example probably works better with little Cathy Freeman!)

This is what the WFA scale is about. It doesn't compensate for females not being as fast, it compensates for them not being as strong.

Bell

Speedy ripped my ratings to pieces - What the??

Firstly, I have NEVER provided ratings on this site, so I don't know what you are talking about. Is this a desperate cry for help from your little friend.

Secondly, you for one should not be mentioning the word "credibility"

And finally, your childish response is exactly what I expect from someone who is backed in to a corner, and can only provide what ifs, and maybes in response to a completely vald argument.

Take nothing away from sunline as she was a champion and the best mare we have seen and most likely will see for years but in a match race over 1600-2400 i feel northerly would be superior. The thing that patrick payne needed to realise was he didn't need luck to win with big weights in those lead up sydney races he could have sat outside the leader and fought the whole way down the straight. The BMW was a different story all he needed to do was pull in behind freemason until the 300 and he wins. Do you people honestly think that if greg childs had been on northerly in sydney that he would still be winless. I dont think so and neither does anyone who knows anything at all about horse racing.

Bell,
You're obviously still pouring over your history books trying to make a compelling arguement on the merits of those horses you claim are all better than Sunline. Keep studying.
Or perhaps....as usual, you have simply gone to water when someone calls your bluff.

Don't worry - I will get to you when I've delt with the other one!

Pre 1900 CARBINE
Pre 1920 WAKEFUL
1920?s PHAR LAP
1930?s AJAX
1940?s BERNBOROUGH
1950?s TULLOCH
1960?s TOBIN BRONZE
1970?s DULCIFY
1980?s KINGSTON TOWN
1990?s MIGHT AND POWER
2000?s NORTHERLY ?

My list changes every time the question is asked. Pity I didn't get a chance to throw in ROYAL GEM, whose wins included...

1945 VATC Caulfield Guineas
1945 VRC Ascot Vale (2yo) Stakes
1945 VRC Cantala Stakes
1945 VRC Linlithgow Stakes
1946 SAJC Goodwood Hcp.
1946 VATC Caulfield Cup
1946 VATC Toorak Handicap
1948 MRC Underwood Stakes
1948 VATC Futurity Stakes
1948 VRC Newmarket Handicap

Royal Gem was taken to the USA where he sired DARK STAR, who won the the Kentucky Derby knocking off a handy horse by the name of NATIVE DANCER.













There is no doubt about the first four legends - Carbine, Phar Lap, Tulloch and Kingston Town.

After that there are a heap to choose from depending on your personal bias.

But in such a list you should consider some of these - The Barb, Malua, Grand Flaneur (unbeaten), Rising Fast, Sailor's Guide, Desert Gold, Peter Pan, Vain, Manikato, Gunsynd, Tobin Bronze, Windbag, Flight, Super Imose, Bernborough, Shy High, Todman, Tranquil Star, Ajax, Galilee, Wakeful, Eurythmic et al

Cannnot really compare eras nor sprinters with stayers.

Just a bit of fun to remember them.

Yet somehow she still could never beat him! That is what will forever remain the same in the wash-up won't it.

NO

Dandy Andy
Curata Storm
Dalla Vista
The Roman Rodent
Latin Quarter
Maltese Beauty
Skybeau
Doctor Sylvester
Jackman
Murphy's Blu Boy

Bernborough
Phar Lap
Rising Fast
Tulloch
Kingston Town
Northerly
Dulcify
Sunline
Better Loosen Up
Tobin Bronze

not hard to compare post 1990 horses and have already done that.

too difficult to compare post 1990 horses with pre 1970 horses though.........

what about the mighty lohrno? lol

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