What did Winx beat?

gladys
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What no retort from Gladys?

I looks like Goofy Glad has fallen way, way down over the edge and into the putrid bog of her delusional mire once again.

You ha been defeated by a superior intellect.

Hi Glad, I am waving at you way, way down there in the putrid bog from way up here on my VICTORIOUS ROYAL KNOW ALL PEDESTAL that the plebs have erected for me.

Can you see me Glad or have you got too much putrid boggy p!g 5h!t in your eyes?

Suck eggs GOOFY, enjoy your humble pie as as you wallow in putrid boggy p!g 5h!t

Oh look poor Glad, is that p!g 5h!t dribbling out of her mouth or is it just a bit of 5L0PPY Zaaki poop?

You've got nuthin MUG!

Cheers from SPEEDY GARY KING.

Come on Gladys,

Forget about the poor attempts at levity, stick to the programme, answer the question MUG.

You are the one who made the rather bold and [email protected] statement.

Just who are these corpses that Winx used to beat that are in your opinion :"ten times better than" the likes of HIGHLAND REEL, BENBATL & CHAUTAUQUA?

Name one, yes just one, one will suffice.

But if you fail to name at least one this will be an admission to the world that you are nothing more than a [email protected] TONK.

Thanks for the accolades Gary, I mean Speedy or should I now be calling you SPEEDY GARY?

Yes I'm you too, troll.

Looks like matron is running late with the meds tonight. All we need now is for you to change into Super Gaz and continue your little deluded rant.

Well said King. This Gladis clown has no idea. Sad troll.

The form line thru the Arc is as good as it gets other than Japan cup.

World class. Top 3 races in world Arc Japan Cup and then best US race.

Gladys,

You said:

"Highland Reel was just at the beginning of his career when they met in australia,"

Poor little immature mite, he was 3years and eight months old when he was flogged by WINX and also beaten by Criterion.

It is a FACT that Highland Reel flogged  FLITSHIRE in the Hong Kong Vase G1 only approximately seven weeks later.

Boy oh boy he must have in your eyes matured a lot in those paltry seven weeks.

Note - FLITSHIRE had won the  Hong Kong Vase G1 the year before.

Note also that about the same time as WINX was flogging Highland Reel, FLINTSHIRE was being beaten 2 lengths by the great GOLDEN HORN in the Arc de Triomphe.

So rather than attempting to denigrate WINX or even Criterion you should be lauding the absolute quality of both these horses. (form line comparisons do NOT lie)

So lets recap that:

WINX flogs Highland Reel, then Highland Reel flogs FLINTSHIRE in a G1 some seven weeks later, and FLINTSHIRE had recently finished second to the great GOLDEN HORN in an Arc de Triomphe. 

That will do me, if you still fail to understand and or acknowledge the absolute quality of these form lines Gladys then I'm afraid that there is NO hope for you and I for one will not be bothering with attempting to explain the misgivings of your misguided novice racing opinions any further.

EAT CROW DOPEY!

 

Gladys,

You are the one who said:

"One thing is certain though, at least the duds he (ZAAKI) is flogging are ten times better than the corpses that Winx used to beat though that would not be very hard."

And now you say:

"Name the good WFA horses he (ZAAKI) has beaten in Oz."

Come on Glad forget about asking us to:

"Name the good WFA horses he (ZAAKI) has beaten in Oz." as this should be much easier for you to do as after all you are the one who said:

"One thing is certain though, at least the duds he (ZAAKI) is flogging are ten times better than the corpses that Winx used to beat though that would not be very hard. 

Surely if these horses are as you say ten times better than the corpses Winx used to beat eg. Highland Reel, Benbatl & Chautauqua then it should be very easy for you to nominate a couple of good WFA horse that ZAAKI has beaten in Australia.

Ya can't have it both ways DOPEY.

You are the epitome of self CONTRADICTION.

Put up or shut up MUG!

 

Is that all you have got Gaz? Highland Reel was just at the beginning of his career when they met in australia, not any international stage. He couldn't even beat Criterion home so that tells you how he ran that day. Benbatl was a Group Three horse who had to go to the Dubai to win a Group One plus another dud one out here. Chautauqua was a sprinter and she beat him over 1500 metres, a distance he never won at.

What else have you got...oh yeah. All those aged stayers, stablemates, non winners and other  duds that lined up in those guard of honour processions.

this bloke that has taken over her mantle was another non winner overseas that comes over here and looks like Phar Lap compared to the rubbish we have running at WFA. Name the good WFA horses he has beaten in Oz.

Come on Goosey Gladys,

Forget about enlisting your diversionary tactics once again.

Stick to the programme.

It is a FACT that you have made a rather bold and [email protected] statement.

Now lets see you back it up with some factual answers.

ANSWER THIS QUESTION

Just who are these corpses that Winx used to beat that are in your opinion: "ten times better than" the likes of HIGHLAND REEL, BENBATL & CHAUTAUQUA?

Forget about your paranoia in regard to people having multiple identities.

Who cares, be this true or not true it is totally irrelevant to your apparent inability to answer the question posed above.

Failure to answer the question posed above will in my opinion and any other thinking persons opinion be a complete and utter admission that you have bowed and yielded to the superior intellect of YOUR KING!

PS

Welcome back to you Goofy Gladys, you were missing in action for some time.

Obviously you were in the mental asylum fighting your demonic paranoia obsession regarding multiple identities attempting to gang up on you.

Unfortunately given your continued insistence that the multiple personalities are still trying to gang up on you it would appear that you have lost the fight as your treatment does not seemed have worked.

 

Just amazing. Give the clown a bit of a prod and he furiously pounds the keyboard with total tripe. With his head spinning he then forgets which alias is he using for his drivel and reverts to his main one.

Welcome back Gaz. How was your stay in the mental asylum.

Sorry about that, unfortunately I posted in the wrong place, hmmmm, must have taken a wrong turn at Albuqereque.

Gladys,

You said:

"One thing is certain though, at least the duds he is flogging are ten times better than the corpses that Winx used to beat though that would not be very hard."

GOOSE,GOOSE, GOOSE!

Just when was it tat Zaaki has beat a horse of the quality of Highland Reel (7/G1s and second in an Arc)?

Just who are these corpses that Winx used to beat that are in your opinion :"ten times better than" the likes of HIGHLAND REEL, BENBATL & CHAUTAUQUA?

Here's you big chance to show us that you are more than an immature 5implet0n novice racing lightweight.

Three examples will suffice (can you count to three?)

Come on D0P3Y put up or shut up MUG!

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE!!!!!!!!

CHOISIR was the 3rd best sprinter in Oz. Went overseas and won.

SUNLINE won HK mile. While in Oz got beaten by OVER.

Most euro races are rubbish. Only 5 or 6 good races and only the Arc is really hard to win. M&P wins that, but bad time of year.

SO YOU THINK was poorly ridden. Yet was inferior 2400m horse to M&P.

Who did Sunline beat?

Who did MP beat?

They beat mostly walkers

Who did Phar Lap beat? Duds

Every champ beat a mix of duds, good horses and the odd champ.

You rarely get 5 champs in one era.

Blu beat Sydeston and won the Japan Cup.

Winx beats Sydeston easily therefore an international win is not hard to see.

Moronic? Exactly your whole argument. You beat whats in front of you.

You are a complete idiot.

Winx ran past every horse in fast sectionals for 4 years.

Winx doesn't choose the opposition you clueless clown.

Bolt beat duds. KT beat duds. Not their fault. They ran past what was in front of them.

Winx beat better horses than KT. Not his fault. Just a fact. She won 4 plates to his 3. She was better.

You are an idiot, that is your fault.

What a moronic comparison. With your lack of intellect I can only assume you are another one of Gary’s aliases. 
If perhaps you are not, then ponder this. Carl Lewis and Bolt competed at Olympics and World Championships and took on all comers. Winx and Zaaki took on duds in Australia. Any horse half decent could run time against the goats they faced. Care to tell us the best three weight for age horses he has beaten?

Who did Usain Bolt beat? Carl Lewis? No. Michael Johnson? No

 

Therefore Bolt was average. Beat duds.

 

Gladys logic!!

 

Class clown

Look at the 600m sectionals troll. Best ever for a 2000m horse in Aus. None better. KT beat worse horses btw.

 

 

It seems that some people like to give me that name when faced with the reality of what I say Speedy. Average horse flogging duds is not a champion in my eyes. If I am wrong perhaps you can appraise me of the quality that you say is there.

Gladys nice trolling. 

I don't know why people or syndicates spend such huge sums in buying yearlings and other young horses at Australian sales when all they need is to import a moderate Listed or Group Three horse from Europe to clean up the no hopers we have racing here at WFA.

The usual assortment of goats, camels, non winners and stablemates went out for a bit of a canter yesterday only to be once again flogged by an average import. One thing I did notice however, this current bunch of no hoping goats would put lengths on the statues that Winx used to beat.

All Zaaki's trainer needs to do is keep him fit and sound and the money will keep rolling in. This bloke is seven years old, couldn't win anything of note overseas, comes here and looks like Phar Lap reincarnated compared to our duds. One thing is certain though, at least the duds he is flogging are ten times better than the corpses that Winx used to beat though that would not be very hard. A few horses off a merry go round would have flogged those duds. 

Hi Gary King,

Looks like Gary King was right once again when he wrote:

"As we know, and it has been proven time and time again on here when she has to start dealing with big numbers like two (as in two Garys) she is predisposed at going straight into her subsequent confusion mode."

AND

"Yeah, two GARY KINGS, she would not be able to cope with that no doubt about it it would probably be enough to send poor old Glad right over the edge."

Yeah looks like Goofy Glad has fallen way, way down over the edge and into the putrid bog of her delusional mire.

She has been defeated by a superior intellect.

Hi Glad, I am waving at you way, way down there from way up here on my VICTORIOUS ROYAL KNOW ALL PEDESTAL that the plebs have erected for me.

Can you see me Glad or have you got too much putrid boggy p!g 5h!t in your eyes?

Cheers from GARY KING.

Great come back Gladys, way better than you normally ??? come back with.

Did this one come from your 6yo alter ego that Gary King mentioned or did one of the other kids in the infants playground suggest it to you?

Thanks for the belly laugh boof head!

You really are a twat.

Cheers from Gary King

 

This is hilarious. 

Hi Gary well said!

I know that you are NOT Gary Crispe & you know that you are not Gary Crispe but fair go here Gary, you have to make allowances for Goofy Glad.

As we know, and it has been proven time and time again on here when she has to start dealing with big numbers like two (as in two Garys) she is predisposed at going straight into her subsequent confusion mode.

We have seen this trait from Goofy Glad many, many times before on here and no doubt we will continue to see it time and time again.

Now if you really want to put poor old Goofy Glad into an ultimate confusion tailspin how about we both start signing off as not Gary, Gary Crispe, King Gary or even theking, from now lets both simply sign off as GARY KING.

But then again is it even possible that she could be even more confused than she already is?

Yeah, two GARY KINGS, she would not be able to cope with that no doubt about it it would probably be enough to send poor old Glad right over the edge.

Cheers from GARY KING.

PS

Once she goes into her next delusional phase (when she thinks that she's got it all worked out) she will probably start calling me KING CRISPE, what a dope she is! 

Timeform Preview - 2017 Melbourne Cup

  • 06 November 2017 by By Gary Crispe - racingandsports.com.au

    Class horses coming off group one weight for age form always run well in the Melbourne Cup which is why I am expecting a big run by Humidor in Australia's most famous race on Tuesday afternoon.

    Humidor had everyone stunned as he made a late burst at the great mare going down by a long neck at the judge. Now that the dust has settled on the Winx euphoria, the focus can now be on the effort of Humidor and what his prospects look like on Tuesday.

    Humidor with a Timeform rating of 129 is the second highest rated runner behind So You Think (133) to come off the Cox Plate and run in the Cup.   

I extracted and edited the above article from the web. I am not Gary Crispe, you idiot.

 

 

Gary re your posting to Gladys of: "I have given you the reference heaps of times where you told us all about Humidor being your selection Gaz, look it up"

And my posting to Gladys of: "And where is your proof that Gary tipped it to win the Melbourne Cup, a simple cut and paste of the text on here should not be too hard even for a DUNCE like you!"

Where is Goosey Gladys' PROOF? Answer = She's got nothing beyond "look it up" She reminds me so much of a second class kid in the infants school playground constantly saying no I'm right just because? And the other kids saying why are you right, where is your proof?

To this little Gladys' retort is always I'm right "JUST BECAUSE" and I don't need to prove it to any of you. And if you don't all shut up and leave me alone I will get my daddy who is a policeman to put you all in gaol. Or is it more like the other little kids saying you show me your proof and then Gladys saying over and over again no you show me yours.

Our legal system observed by "the adults" in our country is fortunately way above that experienced in the infants school play ground. That is Gladys you are the one making the allegation against Gary and under our legal system he remains innocent until he is proven guilty'. There is no onus on Gary to prove his innocence of your allegation.

Be an adult Gladys if you don't have PROOF you are required under our legal system to withdraw the allegation. In other words, put up or shut up MUG! Where is your PROOF infant [email protected]? A simple (operative word) cut and paste will suffice as PROOF.

Or is this supposed Melbourne Cup tip by Gary simply yet another example of one your delusions to be added to the long list of previously "PROVEN" examples already established on here?

 

Gaz, you know what it is. You then denied being the author. 

We all get things wrong in life Gaz, just move on. Next thing you will be denying is that Regumate Girl only beat no hoping duds.

You've made over 50 references to this Humidor Melb Cup prediction - and not once have you quoted it. 

I think you have multiple personalities and one of them is 6 year's old. 

That's really rich Gaz, thanking your alias for supporting you.

Now Gaz, you know where the reference is or are you suffering from identity confusion.

"I have given you the reference heaps of times where you told us all about Humidor being your selection Gaz, look it up"

The only time I have mentioned Humidor was on Oct 29th, 2017 in relation to the 2017 Cox Plate. See below.

“Shinn (on Humidor) had cover for the entire journey. He was patient and economical and positioned his horse and timed its finishing run to perfection….(Humidor) was given a dream run in trying to beat a champion mare which was wide early, had no cover from the 900m, was agitated in the barrier, had recently been innoculated, and had its preparation compromised from being flattened when resuming...”

Now it’s your turn to put up the alleged quote, or stick a sock in your mouth.

Thanks for the support, King.

 

I have given you the reference heaps of times where you told us all about Humidor being your selection Gaz, look it up.

Speaking of Humidor as one of "our greats" is a total laugh. He won 9 times out of 50 starts, 18% and even in our pathetic Group Ones, he won a miserable 3 out of 30. His claim to fame is that he finished a close second to Regumate Girl in one of weakest ever Cox Plate.

No wonder you think Regumate Girl is the best in our history.

Gladys, re your: "He knows everything. He knew the winner of the Melbourne  Cup even though it ended up coming tailed off last."

Again, you are such an uninformed racing NOVICE Gladys! Humidor actually finished 19th out of 23 runners NOT tailed off last.

And where is your proof that Gary tipped it to win the Melbourne Cup, a simple cut and paste of the text on here should not be too hard even for a DUNCE like you!

I reiterate, where is your PROOF? In any case what is your point? Yeah. Humidor finished 19th in a Melbourne Cup at his first try at the distance, so what?

Many GREAT horses of the past have failed at their first attempt at 3200m or even at their first go in a Melbourne Cup. Correct me if I am wrong here but the GREAT Kingston Town went one worse than Humidor when he finished 20th in the 1981 Melbourne Cup, but most thinking racing people (as opposed to a NOVICE) do not hold that against him. 

You have no idea Gladys as you are and continue to be a bumbling uninformed racing NOVICE.

Your logic is mind numbing!


I always thought that a careless riding charge and interference were two different things. I always thought that just because a horse was hampered or interfered with it did not mean that a careless riding charge had to follow. But I must be wrong, because Gaz said so.

All those other things, well that would be speculation but not here. Why? Because big Gaz said so. He knows everything. He knew the winner of the Melbourne  Cup even though it ended up coming tailed off last. 

He is a genius! Just ask him.

Gladys,you are talking through your hat!

Here is part of the stewards report for the 2015 Cox PlateRace 9 - WILLIAM HILL COX PLATE (Group 1) - 2040 metres:

Criterion (NZ) - slow into stride. Checked off the heels of Winx near the 1600m. Checked severely near the 450m to avoid the heels of Winx which had improved to the inside of The Cleaner which after initially having shifted out was then straightened by its rider. In assessing the incident the Stewards could not be fully satisfied that Hugh Bowman (Winx) had a careless riding charge to answer, given the contributing factors in that The Cleaner, when being straightened, left insufficient room for two runners to the inside resulting in Criterion running out of room.

Highland Reel (IRE) - hampered at the 500m when bumped by Arod (IRE) which had been taken out.

Good horses make their own luck that's why they continue to win.

eg. Why was it that Lonhro was able to win from an impossible position in that famous Australian Cup or why was it that Kingston Town was able to win that Cox Plate when the broadcaster famously said "Kingston Town can't win or why was it that the great Bernborough continually won high class races from almost impossible positions even though the other riders were team riding in an attempt to get him beaten?

Answer = Just like WINX they were CHAMPIONS with big motors, heaps of courage and an exceptional will to win who simply had the ability to make their own luck when and if required.

Had WINX suffered the same interference as Criterion or Highland Reel just like Lonhro in that famous Australian Cup or Kingston Town in that famous Cox Plate she would have simply re composed herself, made her own luck, engaged her big motor then raced away to score a strong win.

 

 

I think you have got the finishing order correct except I would have Highland Reel and Criterion in front of Regumate Girl given the interference they copped in the race. I think the finishing margins are a bit exaggerated too as Sunline and Northerly would have been closer together. Given that Sons of John ran second to Regumate Girl perhaps he might well have reversed the order too.

Otherwise, pretty good analysis Gaz.

Gladys,

Further to my previous post, here's what I do know (unlike racing novice Gladys)

Some horse mature early and are outstanding 2yos but when they come back as 3yos many are then eating the dust of some of the 3yos that were not great 2yos as they have now matured into bigger and stronger horses.

The same goes for early 3yos and late 3yos and in fact many don't show there best until late 3y0s, 4yos, 5yos or even older (Reckless is a case in point)

The other thing that I have been trying to point out to you, poor old dopey drawers Gladys is about your extremely flawed argument where you are continually suggesting that that just because a horse like Ring Joe beats Vo Rogue as a 3yo then retires it does NOT mean that this horse would have necessarily gone on to become an even better middle distance WFA star than Vo Rogue.

Vo Rogue finished 15th out of 16 starters in the G1 Rosehill Guineas 2000m when beaten by Ring Joe.

They obviously were both 3yos at the time but coincidently they were both 3 years and 8 months old at the time.

I say coincidently as this is the same age that WINX began to blossom into the "CHAMPION" that she would become.

Not so for Ring Joe, as this horse retired soon after to take up stallion duties.

Ring Joe was a reasonably good horse but the Rosehill Guineas was his only Stakes race win & yes he did absolutely flog Vo rogue in this particular race prior to retiring but I ask you:

Do you as a racing novice or any other reasonably educated racing person think for one moment that Ring Joe would have developed into a more exceptional middle distance WFA star than Vo Rogue became?

Ring Joe had 16 starts for only one Stakes win.

Would the following horses that never won a Stakes Race but were able to beat beat Vo rogue as a 3yo also be considered as potential CHAMPIONS had they not retired?

Charson, Allison Michelle, Myamin, Nazali, Ben Barnie.....

Take your pick, gees that's 6 potential CHAMPIONS but its hard to imagine 6 potential CHAMPIONS all running around at the same time prior to retirement.

I dare say that one of them would end up proving to be the El Supremo CHAMPION based on the new found knowledge and guidance that I have received from Gladys I dare say that I would have to go for Nazali as after all he did flog Vo Rogue in a Murwillumbah Improvers.

Yeah, I am pretty sure that Gladys will agree with me that Nazali would have developed into an even better middle distance WFA star than Vo Rogue.

But then again perhaps its far more likely that Gladys would probably insist that no they all beat Vo Rogue so they all would become even better middle distance WFA stars at the same time.

Yeah, I can see it now Gladys would have visions of all 6 of them being locked together with a 6 way dead heat in the Cox Plate.

The logic is mind numbing, how could any body genuinely be that simplistic in their cognitive processing?

Gary,

Re your recent comment:

"Was the sarcasm not evident?"

I say touch'e to that Gary but was not my sarcastic (tongue in cheek) ironic criticism of you equally evident to you?  ala... 

"Gees your thick Gary, you still don't get it do you."

AND

"Now here's the point that you don't seem to be able to grasp here Gary and that is that all of the horses that beat a CHAMPION as a 3yo must have also been CHAMIONS themselves!"

If you still don't get it Gary, in a round about sarcastic way I was attempting to indicate that not just you but everybody else except for Gladys must have it wrong with a belief of the nonsense that a horse that beats an eventual champion (WINX) as an early 3yo would have developed into an even BETTER CHAMPION than WINX had it not retired.

In any case why would I be genuinely attempting to criticise you King, i mean Gary because that would mean that I would be in fact criticising myself or would it be you, I give up these multiple personalities are becoming way too difficult to manage.

 

The 2015 Cox Plate finishing order – according to Gladys' logic

                                    Margin             Time

1st Northerly               0.0 lens            2. 00.80           Track record

2nd Sunline                 2.5 lens

3rd First Seal              4.0 lens           

4th Adrift                    7.0 lens

5th Fenway                 8.5 lens

6th Gust of Wind       10.0 lens

7th Winx                     14.0 lens          2. 02.98

8th Sons of John         14.2 lens

9th Foxplay                 14.3 lens

10th Red Excite..         14.5 lens

11th Criterion               18.5 lens

12th Highland Reel      19.5 lens

 

Yes Gaz, three years and eight months. Is that the date when the last of the reasonable horses had retired and all that were left were stable mates, aged stayers and no hopers to race against.

Champion, no. Queen of the duds, yes.

King, she became a champion at 3 years and 8 months. Was the sarcasm not evident?

Gladys, it would appear that perhaps you have had a tiff with your buddy Khaptingly as any attempts to denigrate Humidor will also obviously work towards denigrating the perceived quality of Khap's latest idol Zaaki.

In other words the more you denigrate Humidor's ability when racing in his prime the more it serves to denigrate Zaaki's abilities by him not actually beating this arthritic old pensioner by the length of the straight as of course WINX, Kingston Town, Tulloch or Bernborough would have been able to do if they were racing in their respective primes.

Gees your thick Gary, you still dont get it do you.

WINX was not a great early 3yo as she was beaten a number of times by other horses prior to her maaturing into the CHAMPION that she would become.

Very much like one of Gladys' idols Vo Rogue if you ask me except that he was an even bigger dud as a 3yo.

The FACTS are that he had 17 starts as a 3yo for only 5 wins.

Here are 3 of those 5 wins as a 3yo:

He won 2/Gold Coast Improvers & 1/Doomben Progressive.

But what about all his defeats as a 3yo?

He was also beaten as a 3yo in 3/Gold Coast Improvers, 2/Sunshine Coast Improvers, 1/Murwillimba Improvers as well as being beaten in the following better class races:

The Debonair, Autumn Stakes, Australian, Guineas, Autumn Classic, Canterbury Guineas & Rosehill Guineas.

Now here's the point that you don't seem to be able to grasp here Gary and that is that all of the horses that beat a CHAMPION as a 3yo must have also been CHAMIONS themselves!

 

No Gaz, that is just your inverted logic.

They never raced against Sunline so I don't know the answer. They raced against Regumate Girl and flogged her so I know the answer to that.

If you don't know whether Sunline would have beaten the Fenway trio, then you're admitting that those three were on a par with Sunline!

I don't know Gaz and neither do you. They never met so who knows what would have happened. I imagine if that trio had to face the pathetic competition that Winx faced throughout her career, you know, stablemates, aged stayers resuming and general no hopers, then who knows what they might have achieved. What I do know however, is that they flogged Regumate Girl when they were racing.

Now I know you will have an opinion because you will rely on your ratings. Remind us all again about those ratings when they were used to assess Humidor's Melbourne Cup chances. You certainly raced for cover over that little embarrassment didn't you!

Would Sunline have beaten the Fenway trio? 

Gladys,

You are a fool, fool, fool yet again.

Yes, that's right Gladys thre times a fool once again.

It would appear that you have extreme difficulty counting above two.

Humidor actually won THREE G1s not 2 and as pointed out to you before this no mean feat when you consider that he had to race against WINX.

It was a lot more difficult to win G1s when WINX was around.

Of Humidor you said:

"This dud had 50 starts for 2, that is right, 2 pretend Group One wins both at Flemington where he beat a few other total no hopers."

No hopers?

What about the fact that he beat Jameka in the Australian Cup after she had already won a Caulfield Cup, VRC Oaks and then went on to win the BMW soon after.

Hardly a horse that most thinking racing people would call a no hoper!

Obviously this is only one example to show you up to be the FOOL that you are.

There is no need to provide further examples, this one example is proof enough yet again to establish the fact yet again that you are a newbie novice with very limited racing knowledge. 

FOOL, FOOL, FOOL

 

Gladys,

Wow. She won four Cox Plates because that trio of worldbeaters had prematurely retired? 

So, during the 6-7 month period that Winx was losing races (20/9/14 to 11/4/15), the Australian horse racing scene was blessed with multiple world champions and potential Cox Plate winners - and we didn't even know it!

 

 

 

Gaz, there are facts and there is speculation.

Those three horses flogged Regumate Girl. That is a fact. First Seal beat her home five out of six times. That is another fact. Those three horses all retired for various reasons. That is another fact. Regumate Girl went on to race the dregs that remained after those three retired. Another fact. Your statement that had they continued to race she would have beaten them. That is speculation.

Get the drift Einstein?

"Why don't you talk about Adrift, Gust of Wind or Fenway who all totally flogged her and would have continued to do so had they not been retired."

Gladys, this ranks as one of the most idiotic statements ever made on this forum.

You've named not one, not two, but THREE just okay horses that would have consistently FLOGGED a world champion, had they not RETIRED.

Moron.

Oh yes Gaz. Tell us all about Humidor, your top rated Melbourne Cup tip.

I love the part about Winx beating him "when he was in his prime". This dud had 50 starts for 2, that is right, 2 pretend Group One wins both at Flemington where he beat a few other total no hopers.

If you want to talk about horses then talk about First Seal. First Seal beat Regumate Girl home five out of six times. Why don't you talk about Adrift, Gust of Wind or Fenway who all totally flogged her and would have continued to do so had they not been retired.

I have been trying to coax poor old Khap out but it appears that he has gone to ground and hiding under his cowards rock of shame once again.

Here's some more WINX opposition versus Zaaki opposition for you to digest and KHRAP yourself over.

Boy oh boy it must be smelling awfully foul under your rock of shame by now!

WINX beat Humidor when easing down at the end by 7.3 lengths in the Turbull 2000m and 4.8 lengths in the Cox Plate 2040m when in his "PRIME" as a 5 and 6yo respectively.

Zaaki beat the poor old aging 8yo Humidor by 4.7 lengths in the lowly G2 Gold Coast Holindale Cup by only 4.7 lengths and then beat the same poor old pensioner by 12.5 lengths in the Doomben Cup when as reported his arthritis was playing up.

Another report said that the jockey indicated that he thought poor old Humidor appeared have forgotten where he was or what he was supposed to be doing in the race, he said that he seemed like he was off with the fairies.

Poor old Humidor couldn't wait to get home to take his arthritis pills and hang out with the rest of the other aged horses at the halfway house retirement paddock.

This is undeniable, obviously Humidor would have flogged the early 6yo Zaaki if he was racing against him in his PRIME as a 5 or 6yo.

Gees, what's happened to Khap, he's gone real quite since he was shown up to be the Dunce that he is.

I was sure that he would have been back on here skiting about the superior to WINX opposition form lines around Zaaki.

Like how Paths of Glory had "BEATEN" Zaaki over 2000m.

Paths of Glory then went to run 4th to Inverloch in the Wagga Waga Cup 2000m Listed Race.

Paths of Glory then finished 3rd in the 2032m Premier's Cup G3 when beaten by Spirit Ridge who previously had only been able to manage to finish 2nd in that same lowly Listed Wagga Waga Cup 2000m.

There is no dispute these are the form lines surrounding Zaaki in and around 2000m.

This is what I like about you Khap, its a certainty that whenever you are given enough rope you will not only hang yourself but will also shoot yourself in the foot multiple times.

You said: "So who were those? Nothing of the quality of Zaaki."

Nothing of the quality of Zaaki. ????? you are even sillier than I thought.

Zaaki has only won 1/G1 at Doomben, 1/G2 at Gold Coast, 1/G3 at York, 1/G3 at Epsom Downs.

He also failed miserably in the G1 Hong Kong Mile when finishing 8th out of 10 starters and similarly was well beaten into in our own feature mile the G1 Doncaster Hcp in the Sydney Autumn racing carnival.

Let me know when Zaaki has won a Cox Plate or even been placed in a G1 in somewhere other than Qld and or during the racing carnivals of Sydney or Melbourne in the Spring or Autumn in G1 races or better still at some of the elite tracks overseas.

Who knows you may be right, he may well turn into a real topliner but "at present" he really has not proven himself beyond beating a mob of mostly lowly performed imports and "YOUR" accolades at PRESENT are completely unjustified.

Khap, you are getting carried away with giving unsubstantiated accolades to a known GB G3 class horse who just happened to beat up on a field of similar or even lesser performed overseas horses in the off season in Qld of all places.

Off season meaning NOT the Sydney or Melbourne Spring and Autumn racing carnivals.

And to partially quote you with your own words Khap I offer the following:

KHAP proves again that he is the boofhead. Its no point telling us how wonderful Zaaki is unless you tell us how many imports ran in those races and what level they reached at home. Sure lowly performed imported horses will win G1's, mainly they are simply knocking off worse imported horses. You may not have realised this, KHAP, but if hypothetically you have 10 overseas horses in a field of 10, one of them will win the race, if there is no dead-heat, no matter how slow they all are.

Even Benbatl who WINX flogged has far superior form to Zaaki.

Benbatl 3/G1 wins including Caulfield, Munich & Meydan, oh and I think I recall that he also ran rather well in our own G1 Cox Plate when you consider that he really did not have any hope of beating the CHAMPION mare WINX.

He has also won 3/G2 at Maydan & 1/G2 at Newmarket.

And also 1/G3 at Meydan & 1/G3 at Newmarket

Benbatl who WINX flogged has far SUPERIOR form to Zaaki.

And what about Highland Reel that WINX also flogged, he also has far, far SUPERIOR form to Zaaki.

Highland Reel won 7/G1s, 1/G2 & 1/G3 and also ran 2nd in the following G1 races:

Hong Kong Vase, Arc de Triomphe, Prix Du Jockey Club.

In summary in regard to your reposting and posting of the following:

"When you look at a CHAMPION mare such as WINX you are constantly attempting to discredit this great mare who absolutely FLOGGED the same quality of overseas horses that attempted to beat her."

"So who were those? Nothing of the quality of Zaaki."

I will now reiterate the point made to you before as it would appear that once again you have either forgotten what you have been told or you do not have the cognitive ability or comprehension to absorb the following FACTS. (WINX's form being franked)

Re your: "Imagine the hilarity if the next question posed to Mr Haggas was along the lines of "what price would the horses that Winx used to beat be if they started in an Arc" 

He would probably answer you with something like the following:

What sort of a racing novice git are you?

Not much to consider in this answer ya pillock, the form was more than franked by Highland Reel in an Arc."

Followed by the "HILARITY" of laughter from Mr. Haggas and The KING at your expense."

Let me know when and if Zaaki ever qualifies for or gets to start in the Arc ya bonehead!

 

Theking said:

"When you look at a CHAMPION mare such as WINX you are constantly attempting to discredit this great mare who absolutely FLOGGED the same quality of overseas horses that attempted to beat her."

So who were those? Nothing of the quality of Zaaki.

 

When you see names such as Red Excitement, Sons of John and Foxplay as the best horses she beat no wonder he doesn't answer for a few days. Poor Khap is probably in convulsions laughing his head off at what you assess as good.

You thought Humidor was exceptional too didn't you Gaz. How did he go in that Melbourne Cup you talked him up in?

Khaptingly,

You said:

"there is another startling fact, well actually it is not surprising, but only one Aussie bred horse ran in this Group 1 race."

"What a shocking state of affairs but this has been the case for the best part of a decade now."

THANKS SCOOP, it appears that the penny has now finally dropped for you.

This is NOT a revelation from you SCOOP, there are only approximately 33% of our G1 races run over distances of 2000m or more.

That means that if you also include the proliferation of high prizemoney non Group races invented races such as the Everest, Magic Millions races, Golden Eagle, All - Star Mile etc... all under 2000m you are able to target your sprinter / miler type bred horses at it then becomes something like possibly very close to 80% or more of the highest prize money races on our racing calendar being under 2000m.

My point is that it costs a minimum of $50k (not including the purchase price) to find out if your horse has any indication of ability, even in a trial, then why would you bother to breed or purchase a staying bred type horse?

I you breed or purchase a staying bred type horse it is even a longer and more expensive road before you find out whether it has any middle or staying distance ability (In most cases you will be broke by then)

So why would you ever consider putting your money into either breeding or purchasing a staying bred horse?

Its hard enough to get any substantial return on a sprinter / miler let alone a stayer, hence our more informed choice to opt for sprinter / miler type bred horses and in most cases even specifically bred sprint only types with a view to hoping for a return on our investment.

Mind you there are no hard and fast rules some sprint bred type horses turn out to be stayers and some staying bred type horses can even turn out to be sprinters.

Further to this Khap you can't have it both ways.

One minute you are saying just how great these G2 & G3 level overseas horses are when they towel our supposed Aussie Group type horses

BUT

When you look at a CHAMPION mare such as WINX you are constantly attempting to discredit this great mare who absolutely FLOGGED the same quality of overseas horses that attempted to beat her.

Like I said you cant have it both ways.

Gary,

You asked:

"And each time they've been posted, you shut up for a few days and then repeat the same question! Why?"

Gary I think there is possibly a choice of two answers to this one, take your pick.

Answer 1.

Poor old Khap simply forgets that he has asked the question before.

It appears to me that time and time again he simply thinks that he has come up with some sort of revelation.

He then unwittingly asks the same question again thinking that he has come up with something new and not realising what a bore he is by continuing to repeatedly ask the same question over and over again.

Alternative answer 2.

Khaptingly = Little Sir Echo

"Neither yourself (Gary) or Theking can give us the names of the best five horses that Winx defeated."

Khap, I guarantee you that this thread and other Winx threads contain at least half a dozen instances when the top 5 or even the top 20 were put up. And each time they've been posted, you shut up for a few days and then repeat the same question! Why?

Evidence? Where is the evidence? Neither yourself (Gary) or Theking can give us the names of the best five horses that Winx defeated. I would not call that backing up your opinion or judgement. You could not provide five names between the two of you and no one else could either. Why is that I wonder? Just write 100's of words to convince yourselves but don't come up with any evidence of Winx defeating a decent horse. 

Khap, 

The King backs up his assertions with evidence. The best you can do is call him a gullible "sole". Both you and Gladys must have lost bucketloads during that winning streak. Who in their right mind would have thought she'd win that many? Not you, that's for sure! 

Theking, fancy spending all that time writing something in trying to convince yourself. No one really cares what you think. I even noticed you have bolded some words. What...having trouble getting your point across. Next you will be swearing. I never read your mumblings, I just saw it was there. Winx was overated, beat nothing and who cares what gullible soles like yourself, believe.

Thanks for the accolades King Gary winkyes

Hey Gladys, how coincidental is it that both Gary, theking & King Gary have all started to use emojis at the same time?

correct me if I am wrong here but I have NEVER seen theking use an emoji before.

Cheers from,

His Royal Highness King Gary, the reigning king of the principality of Gary Land ????? wink

Wish I could click "LIKE" for King's post! yeslaugh

Gary & Gladys,

Gladys re your:

"No Gaz. I rubbish the opposition that they raced."

Two can play at that game Gladys, see below, read em & weep dopey! 

Gary re your:

"Sunline won 2 Cox Plates and then Northerly won two Cox Plates"

"They were all good horses but none of them would meet the definition of "champion" by today's standard."

How TRUE THIS is!

It is a FACT that Northerly had the wood on Sunline, she ran second to him twice and fourth to him on another occasion.

So there we have it Northerly beat Sunline three times but how many other very good or in many cases lesser lights of her racing era also beat this supposed CHAMPION mare?

The answer is embarrassing! 

Sunline was beaten by the following horses:

2nd to Rose O' War, 5th to Intergaze, 2nd to Adam, 2nd to Shogun Lodge, 4th Allez Suez, 7th to Jim and Tonic, 2nd to Over, 2nd to Fairway, 3rd to Jim and Tonic, 3rd to El Mirada, 2nd to Piavonic, 2nd to Northerly, 2nd again to Northerly, 3rd to Defier, 2nd to Lonhro & 4th to Northerly.

She was beaten by Jim and Tonic twice, once where she finished finished 7th and once when she finished 3rd.

I am not going to suggest that Jim and Tonic was not a very good horse but was he ever described as being in or near being listed in the CHAMPION class?

No he was not but he still managed to flog the pancake champion Sunline on both these occasions.

The reality is that Sunline had 48 starts and was beaten by the horses listed above on 16 out of those 48 starts i.e. 16/48 = 33%

She was beaten 33% of the time by not only some very good horses but also by many of the lesser lights of her racing era.

Is this the mark of a CHAMPION mare?

And the reality is that NORTHERLY has a similarly embarrassing list of very good horses and lesser lights of his racing era that beat him and in more than one case on multiple occasions.

He had 37 starts but was beaten on 18 occasions 18/37 = 49%

He was beaten 49% of the time by not only some very good horses but also by many of the lesser lights of his racing era as the FACTUAL list below will PROVE.

He was beaten by Old Habits, Grand Beau, Exit Lane, Greenstone Charm, Corporate Bruce, Old Comrade TWICE, Barkada, Tribula, Magical Miss, Yell, Mr Trickster, Republic Lass, Grand City, Freemason, Royal Minx, Elvstroem TWICE.

Not too many household names there.

How many of these horses will even be remembered ten years from now?

I am not going to suggest that Old Comrade was not a very good horse but was he ever described as being in or near being listed in the CHAMPION class?

No, he was not but he still managed to flog the pancake champion Northerly on both these occasions.

These are NOT my opinions Gladys, they are the FACTS.

Gladys re your: "No Gaz. I rubbish the opposition that they raced."

I challenge you to rubbish a true CHAMPION such as WINX in the same manner that I have rubbished both of your supposed champions SUNLINE and NORTHERLY.

That is lets see you put up a list of the number of starts WINX had and the the very good horses and lesser lights of her racing era that beat her and also the % of times that she was beaten.

I am NOT interested in you lame novice opinions Gladys, I simply challenge you to present the FACTS in the same manner that I did.

Put up or shut up you racing novice MUG!    smiley

"I rubbish the opposition that they race"  What's your basis of measurement?  You have no idea.

Sunline won 2 Cox Plates and then Northerly won 2 Cox Plates and then Fields of Omagh won 2 Cox Plates. They were all good horses but none of them would meet the definition of "champion" by today's standard.. 

No Gaz. I rubbish the opposition that they raced. Name one horse that Winx beat that would have troubled either Northerly or Sunline. Maybe you might think Humidor. You were certainly all over it in the Melbourne Cup a few years ago, much to your now embarrassment.

Not only did Zaaki towel the opposition, there is another startling fact, well actually it is not surprising, but only one Aussie bred horse ran in this Group 1 race. What a disgrace. The state of breeding and quality of Aussie horses reaching the racecourse is at an all time low.  Obviously there were issues with the 2nd and 3rd favourites, Irish bred horses, who finished last and 2nd last. The 4th favourite was also bred in Ireland. The dominant winner was bred in Great Britain. These 4 horses represented just on 90% of the market on this Group 1 race. This is less than a couple of recent Melbourne Cups though. What an total disgrace. 

For the record the only Aussie bred horse that ran in the race was Nettoyer.

What a shocking state of affairs but this has been the case for the best part of a decade now. No wonder the sheep, the gullible, fell all over Winx. How long can Aussie continue to breed such goats, that sees this nation hardly represented in major races of 2000m and beyond. In the meantime, thank goodness for the imports. They are keeping our major racedays alive. 

Winx just got lucky. Beat nothing, did not win beyond 2200m and would not have got near Zaaki. She was just lucky more imports did not come over here to race at the time. Even more so, imagine if they had bought over the best from Japan. They would have left her in their wake. She was overated, but the gullible fell for it.  

Love the horse first

And the sport second.

"You rubbish our previous champions because you can't name one good horse that she beat. What does that say about you!"

You rubbish Winx and Black Caviar. What does that say about you?

You rubbish our previous champions because you can't name one good horse that she beat.

What does that say about you!

Sunline was a miler and won two Cox Plates. What does that say about her opposition?

Northerly won two Cox Plates beating a miler (Sunline). What does that say about Northerly?

 

One thing you haven't been able to do Gaz is open up any information about the names of the good horses.

Look at that horror show yesterday. Our so called Group One WFA superstars up against a six year old English horse who's claim to fame is to win two Group Three races against five opponents in each case. This horse had no future in the UK and was onsold cheaply to the land of deluded Winx fans and what has happened? Two absolute floggings against horses that were better than the duds Winx beat.

The only way this horse will be beaten is if someone in the UK with an underperforming listed/Group Three horse who has no future over there decides to come out and enter the pretend WFA races against no hoping goats.

It seems I have opened up a can of idiots.

 

I was just looking at the time of today's race. Now I know the Rev Gary loves preaching about Winx's times as that is al he has to rely upon.

Well, the UK Group Three horse today flogged those no hopers in 2.01.06. Might and Power ran over 2020 metres, 20 metres more than today's race and clocked 2.00.

He would have beaten today's winner by 5 lengths on that time. As for the rest, the staff would have been out with torches tonight looking for them.

Just have a look at the Doomben Cup today. The winner was an ordinary Group Three horse in the UK and sold cheaply because it had no future over there.

It comes out here and absolutely towels these pretend WFA goats that we have and is now favourite for the Cox Plate.

Those duds that she beat today were miles better than the no hopers Winx used to beat.

They must be laughing their guts out back in the UK when they see what we call a Group One WFA race.

"If no one listens to me Gaz why have you spent literally years responding to every word I post." Khap and Fairburn listen to you and I can tolerate stupidity up to a point. 

"If you are not one and the same with Theclown, then why are your posts identical". Wow! Show me!

"Did your alias also declare Humidor in the Melbourne Cup" Another $10,000 for you, if you can bring up the post.

Get something right Gladys, come on girl, you can do it!

 

 

 

 

If no one listens to me Gaz why have you spent literally years responding to every word I post.

This alias denial of yours has me amused. If you are not one and the same with Theclown, then why are your posts identical. Did your alias also declare Humidor in the Melbourne Cup he finished tailed off?

Got any names yet?

Gladys.

Further to my:

"You are one very confused individual.

What actually was Makybe Diva's fastest ever win in a G2 Turnbull stakes?"

If times are your new criteria for comparison of these two great mares then its only fair that we compare apples with apples.

Same course in the same race and at the same distance both on a good track.

Makybe diva had three attempts at winning a G2 Turnbull Stakes.

She finished 4th, then7th & eventually won one at her third attempt.

WINX had two attempts at winning a G2 Turnbull Stakes and won both.

WINX's best time was 2:01.60 whereas Makybe Diva's best and only race winning time was 2:01.57.

This equates to Makybe Diva beating WINX by a nostril. 

Therefore one would have to deduce that if Makybe Diva was a CHAMP then WINX must also have been a CHAMP.

Gladys,

If WINX is NOT around then Happy Clapper achieves a far superior record.

His current Group wins (let alone placings) currently are:

2017

ATC Epsom Handicap

G1

1600m

2018

ATC Canterbury Stakes

G1

1300m

2018

ATC Doncaster Handicap

G1

1600m

2015

ATC Villiers Stakes

G2

1600m

2017

Tatt's Tramway Handicap

G2

1400m

2017

NJC Newmarket Handicap

G3

1400m

2019

ATC Craven Plate

G3

2000m

If not running 2nd to WINX on many occasions his record would then presumably have the addition of the following Group wins:

G1 Chipping Norton

G1 George Ryder

G1 Optimo White Stakes

G1 Doncaster

G2 Apollo Stakes

That would then have been a total of 7/G1 wins,  3/G2 wins,  2/G3 wins

(not too many horses can achieve a record such as this)

And who knows, had he not had to burn himself out time and time again attempting to beat WINX his racing career may well have been extended and he may well have been able to win even more Group races prior to retiring.

Obviously if WINX had never been born then WE, collectively

(educated and experienced thinking racing minds)

(as opposed to racing novices)

would then have very likely been lauding Happy Clapper as the CHAMPION of the era.

Therefore it is an undeniable fact, that WINX was able to completely dominate a horse that would have ordinarily been lauded as a CHAMPION had WINX not been around and this is PROOF, even to the uneducated racing novices of her once in a century CHAMPION qualities.

What would have been lauded as a CHAMPION was categorically DOMINATED by the once in a Century CHAMPION qualities of WINX.

Game set and match, no more needs to be said.

The same can be said for BLACK CAVIAR.

BLACK CAVIAR completely dominated Hay List whenever they met.

Hay List won 3/G1 sprints and ran 2nd in other 5/G1 sprints

(4/5 of these 2nds were to BC)

It is a widely held view that Hay List would have been the CHAMPION sprinter of his era except for having to race against BLACK CAVIAR.

Bl!nd Freddy can see what a CHAMPION sprinter BLACK CAVIAR was, one only has to take a look at the way she dominated the world class sprinters Hay List and  Buffering (7/G1s) in the 2012 Lightning.

Buffering was proven on the World Stage as was BLACK CAVIAR

No more needs to be said, particularly from you Goosey Gladys as you like the little boy who cried wolf too many times have made a F00L of yourself way too many times.

No one is listening to you any more as they do not value the opinion of a F00L.

Cheers from KING Gary, thanks for the belly laughs Glad.

 

The fact that you think the King and I are the same person is further proof that you don't have a clue about anything.

$10,000 straight to your bank account if you are ever proven correct. I will even accept your utterly stupid proposition that Northerly and Sunline would towel Winx, which according to you, would collapse at 600 metre mark. 

Idjut

Whenever you are asked for the names of the good horses she beat Gaz you assume an alias and try to divert the conversation as you know you can't name one, not one. They were all duds.

Gladys,

Re your: 

"If Vo Rogue had been leading the Turnbull she would have collapsed at the 600 metre mark.

Imagine how fast MD must have been going to run the time that she did. She averaged 60.5 kph for the trip so given that the first part of the race would have been marginally slower and the time she ran, imagine her sectionals."

Why is tis relevant?

You are one very confused individual.

What actually was Makybe Diva's fastest ever win in a G2 Turnbull stakes?

You are such a NOVICE dopey

Obviously by banging on about a second means more to you and provides a great diversion from the fact that she got no where near the time of MD Gaz, despite the facts she was only racing total no hopers.

Got any names yet?

Gladys re your:

"Tell me about my maths Gaz You don't think 1 min 58 seconds and a bit is almost 4 seconds faster than 2 mins 2 seconds."

What the fuc&, you still don't get it do you?  (the simple maths I mean)

The sad thing is that you don't even have primary school maths abilities required for you to realise that you are wrong, wrong, wrong!

Whoa, you have now PROVEN yourself to be way, way dumber than even I ever thought you were in the past.

This one really takes the cake!

Here, I will take the place of the REMEDIAL MATHS teacher for you Gladys in the hope that you may gain an understanding as to just how wrong you are.

You rounded 1.58.73 down to 1.58.0.

Why round down to 1.58.0 when 1.58.73 is very nearly 1.59.0?

And then even if a dunce like you can accept this rounding up to attempt to make the maths simpler for you then hopefully you now have, due to my remedial guidance an understanding of the following.

If we round 2.02.07 down to say 2.02.0 and we round 1.58.73 up to 1.59.00 then hopefully even you (after remedial guidance) can now understand the following.

2.02.0 - 1.59.0 = only 3 seconds not 4 seconds.

The actual fact of the matter is that the real answer is a little over 3 seconds but it is way closer to 3 seconds than it is to 4 seconds.

Perhaps you may understand it better if I put it in old school fractions for you Gladys, one can only hope.

Here perhaps a bumbling old school oaf such as yourself may have a better understanding if I say the the difference between these two times is not 4 seconds or even the much more accurate rounded 3 seconds but the actual answer is approximately 3 1/3 seconds.

Here's a tip for you Gladys.

If in the future you don't actually understand something (like basic maths) you are better to simply not comment and let everybody have the suspicion that you may be a F00L rather than posting STUPID!TY which then proves beyond a shadow of doubt that you are in fact a F00L.

That said, given the amount of times that you have regularly proven yourself and been proven by others time and time again to be an absolute dimwitted racing novice, why would anybody take any notice of you and your mostly inept, inaccurate and confused posts on here?

YOUR KING has proven you to be an absolute F00L once again.

There is a vacant position in my court for a new Jester, I think from memory the add says only F00L5 need apply.

Why don't you apply for it Gladys?

I for one would vouch for you and I am sure that many others on here would attest to the fact that you are a competent and talented F00L

Kiss my Royal ring F00L   (thanks for the belly laughs)

"Two seconds or four seconds, who cares"

Exactly. Thanks for admitting that you can't count.

Isolated track records mean nothing.  Winx's resume is full of fast times and brilliant sectionals Consistently running fast times OR fast sectionals means plenty, except to a speed novice like you. 

 

.

 

Two seconds or four seconds, who cares. She would have beaten her by 10 lengths instead of 20 lengths.

This tripe about Winx would have loved the pace. She ran behind stablemates who weren't leaders who just gave up at the 400 metre mark and formed a guard of honour.

"Don't restrict it to just two horses in N and S to try and prop up your feeble argument" No, let's not restrict it to two horses that you've said were clearly superior to Winx! Makybe Diva would have also crapped on N & S.

Makybe loved it when Niagra Falls clapped on the speed in the same way Winx would have. Both real champs with high cruising speed and multiple gears. 

How do you get 4 seconds difference dopey?!

 

Race tempo Gaz. Don't restrict it to just two horses in N and S to try and prop up your feeble argument.

Tell me about my maths Gaz You don't think 1 min 58 seconds and a bit is almost 4 seconds faster than 2 mins 2 seconds.

Who were the great ones she beat in those Cox Plates Gaz?

"Carving it out"?!

Bring it on! Thats what she loves!  

Where, from the table below, does any of your tripe make sense?!

2018   Winx 2.03.47 35.62 G3
2017   Winx 2.02.94 34.93 G4
2016   Winx 2.03.42 33.75 G3
2015   Winx 2.02.69 35.64 G3
2002   Northerly 2.06.27 36.57 G3
2001   Northerly 2.05.84 36.42 G3
2000   Sunline 2.07.70      38.66 S7
1999   Sunline 2.05.65      36.57 G3

Who knows Gaz. Northerly or Sunline would have been up the front carving it out, not hiding back in the pack behind slugs. If Vo Rogue had been leading the Turnbull she would have collapsed at the 600 metre mark.

Imagine how fast MD must have been going to run the time that she did. She averaged 60.5 kph for the trip so given that the first part of the race would have been marginally slower and the time she ran, imagine her sectionals.

Yay, Gladys finally got another course record right unlike the couple of dopey ones she pasted recently

BUT

Even so it still doesn't forgive your inability to get simple subtraction calculations correct.

ie. "that's almost four seconds faster."

What a dunce.

Like I told you before Gladys you are the epitome of of a loud mouthed racing novice who is always getting anything to do with calculations wrong and who desperately needs to get herself along to a beginners REMEDIAL MATHS class.

They were loafing in front and she was hopelessly boxed in at the rear. She had to thread her way through and clock 70kph to run them down in the straight.

Do you think N & S could have done that?.

Thanks for your edifying comments Gaz. If I am correct that is the race she managed to beat some real top liners, If memory serves me she beat Ventura Storm and Humidor. Following those two champions home were Assign, Sir Isaac Newton, Magicool and Skyfire, a big field of seven, all champions,. Look at the time, 2.02.07, yep, doesn't get much better than that. You have proved your point, I don't know what I was thinking.

Oh hang on, what's this? Makybe Diva holds the track record for this distance at 1.58.73, that's almost four seconds faster. How fast was she going Gaz? I think one second equates to about 5 lengths doesn't it Gaz. What's 5 lengths by 4 seconds Gaz?

Got any more great facts you want to rely on?

"Any horse can do anything if they are only running against duds Gaz."

She clocked 70kph in the 2000m TURNBULL Stakes. That's great TURN of foot, and you're full of BULL.

 

Any horse can do anything if they are only running against duds Gaz. The Clerk of the Course's horse would look like Bernborough racing against the no hopers she raced.

 

Tell us all the names of the good horses she was doing these spectacular feats against.

How many more times are we going to answer the same stupid question? You are living in fantasyland if you think N & S would get anywhere near her. The conversation should be how she compares to other world champs like Secretariat, not N & S, for goodness sake.

Here's a physicist, Graeme Putt's view on her extraordinary ability.  I doubt that it will mean anything to you, because your head is so far up your a....

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing/science-says-winxs-extraordinary-ability-to-lift-stride-rate-the-key-to-stunning-winning-run-20170406-gvfa4l.html

 

Of course you don't Gaz. I think a more appropriate response would have been to concede that you don't have any idea what you are talking about.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

No Flapper, he was not. They ran over 1200 metres and it was the fastest of the day.

Now, back to the question. Who would have been the El Supremo for those years if she had not been in the race. Get your big yap going on that Flapper.

"Might and Power.. broke 33 seconds for the final 600 metres and didn't even look like he was trying. ..Alan Denham..dismissed the track gallop as..when there was no pressure it was easy for racehorses to clock fast times.."

Denham was referring to the fast "final 600 metre" sectional, not "fast (gross) times" you boofhead. 

 

I remember years ago being at Rosehill when Might and Power had a gallop between races with a stablemate. He broke 33 seconds for the final 600 metres and didn't even look like he was trying. I heard Alan Denham interviewed a few days later and he dismissed the track gallop as being of little meaning. He said that when there was no pressure it was easy for racehorses to clock fast times and that they meant little. He went on to say that in competitive races it would be hard to replicate these times if you were running against very good horses. He also said that most maidens and lower class horses ran faster times on a given raceday then the higher classed racehorses running in later races on that day, over the same distances.

Now have a look at the place getters in those Cox Plates you highlighted. Which of those, if any, would give any reasonable horse any pressure.  Humidor, (your Melbourne Cup special), Hartnell, a handicapper, perhaps Folkswood or Benbatl, two horses that struggled to win at Group Three in the Uk, Criterion who won seven out of thirty six races, Yankee Rose or I know, cue, wheel out Highland Reel, he did some good stuff later on.

Given that the Cox Plate is the Australian WFA title, if she had not started one of those donkeys would have been the el supremo.

Which one Gaz? 

Look at the table below. Eight classic examples of a faster tempo and a faster finish. 8 out of 8.
On the one occasion that she did enjoy a luxury 89 second tempo, she rocketed home in 33.75, won by 8 lengths and was eased up in the last 40 metres. The finishing sectionals tell us unequivocally she would have slaughtered N & S.

Distance 2040 First 1440 Last  600
Winx 2018 87.85 35.62
Winx 2017 88.01 34.93
Winx 2016 89.67 33.75
Winx 2015 87.05 35.64
Northerly 2002 89.70 36.57
Northerly 2001 89.42 36.42
Sunline 2000 89.04 38.66
Sunline 1999 89.08 36.57

"How hard is it to get through your thick skull that times equate to tempo, not class"

Gladys, are you saying that dashaway Sunline, who virtually led in every one of those four Cox Plates, did NOT set a fast tempo?

And if the tempo was indeed comfortable and slower, then shouldn't their finishing sectionals be much faster than Winx's?

Can't have it both ways. Fast tempo with slow finishing sectional OR Slow tempo with fast finishing sectional. 

Sure, there can be occasional aberrations, but what we have here is 8 out of 8 aberrations.

 

Gladys,

Your most recent post is undeniable proof positive yet again that you are living in the Goosey world of the past where everything racing was bigger and better than it is today.

When you stop trembling enough to address just how has your KING has made a GOOSE out of you once again, I suggest that you do some research on the current course records.

And if you have any guts apologise for your continued NOVICE ineptness and correct same with a post on here with the correct information.

I'm a GOOSEY girl living in a PAST and GOOSEY world where everything was so FANTASTIC and my skirt was made of PLASTIC!

Get out of the twentieth century Glad ar5e

Gladys,

Re your:

"Tell me again how great our WFA horses are and how strong our Group races are"

Glady, you are constantly telling us how our WFA races were stronger in the past.

But were they actually stronger in the past?

While on the current subject of the G2 WFA Hollindale Cup and or how strong our WFA races were in the past, lets take a look at how well one of your WFA idols fared in this same race.

Slow Rougue finished a miserable 6th in his one and only attempt at this race when he had everything in his favour, WFA conditions and over his pet distance of 1800m. (He was not very well suited at 2000m or more)

Admittedly he was a 7yo at the time but this is no excuse.

One only has to compare Slow Rogue's NO wins out of fifteen starts record as a 7yo compared to WINX's eight Group race wins from eight starts as a 7yo if you are wanting a good chuckle at Glady's expense and ineptness.

Gladys this is so typical of your waffle regarding how great the past WFA stars were if compared to the modern era of WFA stars.

You have no idea as you are the proverbial racing NOVICE.

 

Of course Gaz, times means everything. Kingston Rule is the greatest two miler we have ever seen, Ike's Dream is the greatest miler that Randwick has ever seen and Final Card is the greatest 1200 metres horse that Flemington has ever seen.

How hard is it to get through your thick skull that times equate to tempo, not class. If there is no pressure, small field and a pacemaker, times will be fast.

Go back to having conversations with yourself through your alias and stop boring us all to death with your drivel.

Well done Gary,

You have managed to show Gladys up for the GOOSE that she is once again.

I know that using times alone is NOT an exact science due to the plethora of variables eg. state of track, surfacing or resurfacing. cut of grass, head wind, tail wind, the way the race is run ala tearaway leader etc, etc....

There is no doubt, the variables are almost endless.

But if we use times alone to compare these Cox Plate winners, pure mathematics will show that if you take WINX's best time away from either Northerly's or Sunline's best times the calculated margins behind WINX would be approximately 22 lengths for Northerly and approximately 21 lengths for Sunline.

The proverbial DAYLIGHT margin behind WINX for either of these past champs.

Think about it, that sounds about right to me, Northerly always seemed to have the wood on Sunline .

In any case yes you can dispute the method of comparison using times alone due to the massive amount of variables

BUT

even if we allow a massive 90% margin for error due to variables we still see both Northerly and Sunline being beaten by two lengths or more by WINX based on their respective best Cox Plate times.

Cox plate stats;

2018   Winx 2.03.47 35.62 G3   Benbatl Humidor 2.0 lens
2017   Winx 2.02.94 34.93 G4   Humidor Folkswood 0.4 lens
2016   Winx 2.03.42 33.75 G3   Hartnell Yankee Rose 8.0 lens
2015   Winx 2.02.69 35.64 G3   Criterion  Highland Reel 4.7 lens
2002   Northerly 2.06.27 36.57 G3   Defier Grand Era 1.0 lens
2001   Northerly 2.05.84 36.42 G3   Sunline  Viscount 0.8 lens
2000   Sunline 2.07.70      38.66 S7   Diatribe Referral 7.0 lens
1999   Sunline 2.05.65      36.57 G3   Tie the Knot Sky Heights 1.5 lens

The only thing simple about this is yourself, Gaz. I couldn't be bothered detailing the races that need to be downgraded as the whole classification is broken. Firstly, handicaps should not be Group races. In handicaps, the best weighted horse usually wins, not the best horse. Group racing was only brought about so that the breeders could crowbar more money out of the purchasers. It gives an unwarranted value to horses based on dud races that they have either won or been placed in.

If you look back over the last 10-15 years our WFA racing has become weaker by the year. Our sprinters are comparable to most but our middle distance and staying distance horses are pretty hopeless. What has been allowed to develop is that hopeless horses have competed against other hopeless horses in these wrongly names Group races and as Khap pointed out numerous times, one of the duds has to win. Give this scenario occurs about seventy times during the year in Group One races alone, we then have this media stupidity that our races are strong because "we have many Group One horses competing in this race.". We don't. We have many dud horses that beat other dud horses in this race. This all rolls along until a Group Three horse like the winner of the Cox Plate or another Group Three horse like the winner of the Hollindale comes along and flogs these no hopers.

That poor trainer up in Brisbane likened the Hollindale field to a "Cox Plate" field. He was right. A field full of horses that had beaten duds in a race called a Group One but existing in name only. The trainer was also right as the field in this years Hollindale was better than the Cox Plates of 2016-18. 

Imagine if the connections of Sir Dragonet went back to the UK and declared him a Group One winner. He would be laughed out of Ascot.

Anyone who wants to win a middle distance WFA race in Australia only needs to bring a Group Three/Listed horse out here and it is yours. In the Winx years you would have needed a Group Two horse just to be certain.

Gladys,

You appear to have strong opinions in regard to questioning the quality of and excess number of WFA Group and Listed Stakes races scheduled on our Australian racing calendar.

I have asked you this before but did NOT receive a response.

Given that you feel that our WFA G1, G2, G3 and Listed races are in general of poor quality and way too many in number which races would you get rid of?

Lets make it simple for you Gladys.

Perhaps you could enlighten us all by coming up with a rescheduled racing calendar where you have deleted one of each of the following categories of WFA Stakes races from each State (if possible) G1, G2, G3 & Listed.

And if this proves far too challenging for you and you choose instead to YEILD to YOUR KING's CHALLENGE.

Then perhaps at a minimum I CHALLENGE you to answer the following questions at a bare minimum.

Do you think that the G2 WFA Hollindale Cup is one of the weakest G2 status races on our racing calendar?

And if so are you of the opinion that it should probably be reduced in status to say G3 or even regraded down even further down to Listed race status rather than it continuing to be run as G2 WFA race?

Gladys,

I'll give you an answer when you acknowledge the fact that you are a bumbling oaf.

Regards 

Geoffrey 

Gladys,

Re your:

"Tell me again how great our WFA horses are and how strong our Group races are Gaz."

I dare say that by this statement that you are implying that our WFA horses are NOT great and that our Group races are of a weak standard.

And in particular you are of the opinion that the Hollindale Stakes is in general one of the weakest of the G2 status races of our racing calendar.

Am I right?

Please confer if this is in fact supportive of your opinion.

Hey Gaz, where is Geoffrey? He was given two questions weeks ago and hasn't been seen since. He was not asked to solve Pierre de Fermat's Last Thereom, just to give us a few names.

I would ask you to help but you were stuck on them too.

I had a really good laugh during the week Gaz. One of the Edmonds in Brisbane likened the Hollindale to being of similar quality to the Cox Plate. He stated that it was comprised of our Group One stars and the best one he had seen.

The winner was Zaaki, a horse from the UK. Prior to yesterday he had won two Group Three races in the UK, both races comprising of field of six in total. Besides that tremendous record he had also won a listed race. In his form I noticed he had been flogged about 6 lengths by Benbatl, that horse only ever achieving Group Three status in the UK and a Group One in the desert whe he was punted from the UK.

Anyway, Zaaki comes out here and absolutely towels our similar quality Cox Plate field at the Gold Coast. Two of the horses in the field were horses that Winx used to flog.

Tell me again how great our WFA horses are and how strong our Group races are Gaz.

Hi Gladys,

Looks like you have with the help of your apprentice Khap eventually been able to untwist the restrictive knot of your big G!RL courage [email protected] from around your ankles and that he has been able to rethread some new elastic into your pathetic CRU5TY old kn!ckers.

Glad to see you back Glad, you have yet again given your Jolly Old King a good belly laugh once again.

Gary & Gladys, although very relevant, forget about the comparisons to past champions as this generally turns into a lengthy no win debate for either party.

It is far better to focus on the pure mathematics and science provided by "horse expert", Dr Andrew McLean; as these scientific facts provided can NOT be denied

That is unless of course you are a flat earther like Gladys who coincidently is also a proven poor judge of horse flesh.

Gary, you made reference to some of Glady's idols eg. Manikato & Vo Rogue

These are prime examples of Glady's inability to recognise CHAMPION qualities in her revered racehorse idols.

Manikato was a supposed CHAMPION SPRINTER / MILER, the reality is that he was no good over 1200m unless this burly individual was beating up on all the other little kids as 2 and 3 year olds.

He never won a G1 open WFA race over 1200m.

Equally his description as a CHAMPION MILER is also a myth, he never won a G1 open WFA stakes race over 1600m.

In fact he only ever won two stakes races over a mile.

One was a G2 WFA race and the other was a set weights 3yo event where this burly individual was able to beat up on all the other little 3yos.

Hardly the record of a CHAMPION SPRINTER MILER is it?    (unless of course you are a dufus like Gladys)

The reality is that this supposed CHAMPION SPRINTER / MILER was not an accomplished G1 open WFA 1200m sprinter or a even an accomplished G1 open WFA 1600m miler.

The reality is that he was a one trick pony who only ever excelled over his pet distance of 1400m and even then he only ever where won 5/G1s at WFA .

And as for Slow Rogue another of Glady's idols.

Enough has been said already about this pancake champ that was beaten by so many very ordinary horses and further to this he could not win if ever there were more than half a dozen drops of rain on the course. (pathetic)

Gladys and all the other nongs will still put him up on a pedestal as having been a great 2000m WFA (middle distance) horse but the reality is that he failed miserably in multiple Cox Plates, 

The facts of the matter are that 1800m was about as far as he was comfortable with.

Further to this Rubiton made him look like a hack each and every time they met over a middle distance.

So using this information as a basis Gary, clearly there is little point in reading about Gladys' opinions as to what makes a CHAMPION.

Its oh so very obvious that she has NO idea.

 

 

Excluding 3yo KT, Winx the jackrabbit would have tapdanced down the straight against any of your idols. 

That's still fabulous and I am glad it makes you happy Gaz. What makes a champion though Gaz is whom you beat to achieve that title. Perhaps you think a 3rd grade cricketer flaying the local pub bowling attack puts him on par with Bradman.

Winx could have tap danced down the straight and still beaten the duds she faced as would any half decent horse.

He made a direct comparison of the champs, not their opposition.

That's fabulous Gaz. He certainly wasn't interested in studying any of the no hopers that she beat or commenting on their stride or tempo. I imagine any half reasonable horse would have looked spectacular going past those total duds.

King, 

An article from "horse expert", Dr Andrew McLean;

“Winx is the most extraordinary racehorse of our time. It is not just because she keeps on winning and breaking all the records of straight wins, it is the way she wins.

All of the champions of the past have tended to lengthen their stride on the home straight and in doing so, their tempos (the speed of the stride) slow a little or a lot. For example, Black Caviar had a stride length of well over 8 m. On the home turn her tempo was around 145 bpm, yet when she cruised to the finish line, her tempo decreased to less than 130 bpm.

By comparison, Winx is a jackrabbit, her stride length is quite short (under 7m) but her tempo can increase to well over 160 bpm. That is truly an amazing biological feat for an animal as large as a horse. She must have an extraordinary neural firing ability.

No other champion racehorse, to my knowledge, has accelerated to that frenetic level. I have measured American Pharaoh, Secretariat and a few other American greats, as well as our own Kingston Town, Makybe Diva, Chautauqua and many others and they all tend to adopt the Black Caviar model of lengthening once they’ve rounded the home turn, although some do a bit of both – they lengthen but also increase tempo slightly. But none can match the outrageous tempo of Winx."

Souce: https://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2018/08/what-makes-winx-great-andrew-mclean-discusses/

 

Don't worry about where's Wally, more importantly where's Gladys?

Probably locked in a dark room somewhere watching re runs of Vo Rogues wins still trying to work out where she went wrong.

Here's a clue Gladys, in case you still haven't been able to work it out as yet

They only show his wins on the highlight videos, whish of course tends to make him look like a super star,

Sorry to be the one to break the news to you Gladys but they tend to leave out all his miserable failures on these highlight videos.

Hey Gary,

Notice how quiet Gladys becomes after she has had her [email protected] well and truly pulled down yet again.

She has obviously spent the last week or so trying to work out how to pull her [email protected] back up again.

Or is it that she has finally realised what a mug she is and that she has been wrong about WINX all along.

And where is her little apprentice Khaptingly, he also has gone very quite.

I'm tipping that he has spent the last week or so struggling to mend the elastic in Gladys' [email protected]  and then feebly attempting to help her pull them up again, with her struggling against him and saying "no Khap I have has enough I can't go on anymore, the KNG has out witted me once again"

No, no more Khap, I have had enough of the constant embarrassment with the KING always being right and continually proving me wrong and laughing at me time and time again.

It was bad enough before but I really can't now find the strength go on as my courage [email protected] are now firmly tangled around my ankles and I can't do a ting about it.

Damn that KING he has made me look like a mug way too many times, I give up, I bow to his superior knowledge in anything to do with racing or breeding of thoroughbreds.

Gary,

Or perhaps, maybe, on many of the days that Vo Rogue ran early in his career, he simply had an off day? 

(lots of off days in fact particularly on the lowly Qld provincial circuit) 

According to Gladys, this is exactly what happened to many of her idols if and when they got beaten.

Oh is it any wonder that so and so got beaten? 

He or she simply had an off day.  ala Northerly & Freemason in Gladys' opinion but I say Freemason beat him fair and square and was simply "the best horse on the day"

Some very good points raised by you Gazza, love your work.

Why wouldn't I as its oh so similar to mine that its almost scary, ha, haa, haaaaaa!

We are all laughing at you Gladbag.

What a dunderhead.

Cheers from your jolly old KING Glad.

Thanks for the constant supply of belly laughs, please do NOT ever change.

We are so fortunate to have you Glad.

You are a real treasure, there is no denying this fact.

You are the gift of MIRTH that just keeps on giving.

King,

Maybe, many of the horses that beat Vo Rogue early in his career, would have retired or lost form?  According to Gladys, this is exactly what happened to Winx and why she became a champion! 

Gladys has often criticised WINX for being a slow starter, in that is she took some time to mature into the wonder horse that she became. 

But lets look at the FACTS and compare her with one of your idols namely Vo Rogue who also took time to develop into the very good horse that he eventually became.

WINX

1. Broke her maiden as a 2yo at her first start.

2. She had 2 starts as a 2yo all on Sydney tracks for 2 wins = 100%

3. As a 3yo she had 9 starts on Sydney tracks and 1 on a provincial track for 4 wins = 40%  

4. NOTE the one start as 3yo on a provincial track resulted in a win in the Gosford Guineas

5. She had 12 starts in total as a 2 & 3yo for 6 wins = 50%

 

 

VO ROGUE

1. Broke his maiden as a 2yo at his fifth start.

2. He had 5 starts as a 2yo for only the one win, = 20%

(Note that 3 out of these 5 starts a a 2yo were on Qld provincial tracks) 

3. As a 3yo he had 17 starts for only 5 wins. = 29%

4. As a 3yo he only managed to win 2 out of his 8 starts on lowly Qld and NSW provincial tracks. = 25%

5. Of these 8 starts as a 3yo on Qld and NSW provincial tracks he only managed to win two lowly Gold Coast Improvers races.

5. He had 22 starts in total as a 2 & 3yo for 6 wins = 27 %        (Note many of these runs on Qld and NSW provincial tracks)

Gladys,

There is a stark difference between Gary's posts and mine. Give it up detective Gonzo. Even Khap won't come on board with you. 

Gladys,

WINX is on record as having beaten an INTERNATIONALLY proven G1 sprinter and a proven world renowned accepted INTERNATIONAL WFA superstar middle stayer.

Perhaps you could give us some examples of some of your idols eg. the one trick pony Manikato or the dud Vo Rogue (who couldn't win even one Cox Plate) coming anywhere near emulating these feats.

But of course you will as udual come back with your silly comments about how Vo Rogue only raced against good horses while WINX only raced against duds.

But before you do please consider this long list of the relative duds and lesser lights that beat a horse like Vo Rogue.

These are but a small sample of some of the horses that all beat Vo Rogue at least once.

Prince Calling,

Blazonry, Appealed, Sprit of Bengal, Charson, Allison Michelle, Myamin, Nazali, Ben Barnie, Tristram, Dandy Andy, Pilgrim's Gem etc......

There were others of course like Ring Joe who to his credit did in fact win one Stakes race but as you have speculated many, many times on here Gladys, perhaps all the other horses (including Vo) simply had an off day had an off day.

 

Gladys,

There is a stark difference between Theking's posts and mine. Give it up detective Gonzo. Even Khap won't come on board with you. 

Flap flap flap goes Gaz's big yap through his alias the theklown.

How about answering the questions posed Flapper!

Khaptingly,

Re your: "but what do you have to say about the comments from William Haggas?"

Look out Khap it appears that the GOOSE syndrome in your case may be catching.

I have already said plenty in regards to the comments of Mr. Haggas.

Please try and keep up in future.

And now for the slow ones (that includes you Khap) I will reiterate the Mr. Haggas related comments that I previously posted to Gladys:

(note some typos have been slightly adjusted)

"You also said: "I see William Haggas didn't think much of VE chances in an Arc."

To this I say opinions are like @holes everybody has got one.

I wouldn't take too much notice of what this pommie git has to say.

If he was or is now so smart in hindsight where was he with his good horses when WINX was being allowed to waltz around our tracks week after week, month after month & year after year accumulating the highest prizemoney of any racehorse in the entire world at the time (approx. $26.3m)

I'll tell ya where, racing back home for comparably peanuts either too scared of taking on WINX or too dumb to realise the bounty of prizemoney on offer in Aus.

Take your pick. either answer will show this bloke up to be the fool that he is and you as an even bigger fool for taking any notice of his completely unfounded @hole opinions.

Whos to say, given the right track conditions VE could not win an Arc & this nonsense about a 20-1 shot not having any hope is also nonsense.

I have not checked the stats but I am reasonably sure that in the long history of the Arc and taking into account the variable track conditions present, I dare say that there is every likely hood that it has been won by a 20=1 shot or even a longer price at some stage.

Re your: "Imagine the hilarity if the next question posed to Mr Haggas was along the lines of "what price would the horses that Winx used to beat be if they started in an Arc" 

He would probably answer you with something like the following:

What sort of a racing novice git are you?

Not much to consider in this answer ya pillock, the form was more than franked by Highland Reel in an Arc."

Followed by the "HILARITY" of laughter from Mr. Haggas at your expense."

Careful Khap, all this time that you are spending portraying yourself as Gladys the GOOSE'S apprentice is turning you into almost as big a goose as she is.

 

 

theking you are quick to comment on and criticise the post by Gladys, but what do you have to say about the comments from William Haggas? Or was Gladys just used as a distraction to gloss over some hard facts that you did not like that came from one of the best trainers in the world. 

Gladys the GOOSE looks like your King unlike you is right again as usual.

I did not have to delve too far into the Arc records to find a "STINGING" example of a 20-1 winner.

"Despite Danedream winning two Group 1 races easily, she was still sent off at 20/1. Even so, Danedream went on to win the race by five lengths and the way she accelerated to put the race to bed in a matter of strides was something out of the ordinary. Not only did Danedream win the race easily, but she smashed the course record time at 2:24.49, which was set back in 1997."

What a great win by Danedream, as she "produced a result the market did not anticipate."

She won by 5 lengths when smashing the course record.

Clearly a result result that the market did not anticipate.

(How long is it since you have seen a bookie driving a rusty old Volvo?)

But of course Gladys the GOOSE will say she beat nuthin and all of the other horses in the field must have simply had an off day.

GOOSE, GOOSE, GOOSE!

Why is it that you can never get anything right?

Answer = You are a have a nitwit racing novice brain!

I reiterate:

SECRETARIAT could be reincarnated and win the Newmarket Hcp, Lightning stakes, Cox Plate, Melbourne Cup & QE Stakes by thirty lengths in each and every race next season  and both Gladys and Khaptingly  would still say, "Yeah so what he only beat a bunch of donkeys, what did he beat?"

Or perhaps they would say "The only reason that he was able to beat all of those other horses in G1s by thirty lengths was that the rest of the horses were all having an of day."

Or perhaps they would drag out the old chestnut that Ausie G1s are a dime a dozen their quality can not be substantiatede.

Sorry Dopey the pair of you are both wrong on this count as the form has been franked by the Oz sprinters going of there and knocking off their best.

And now the we have had an Ascot G1 winner winning some of our G1s but only being extremely competitive in others.

Further to this, there is no dispute by the European, UK, Hong Kong & USA racing that Highland Reel, has also more than franked the QUALITY of G1 races.

GOOSE, GOOSE, GOOSE!

 

Those three would be longshots Gaz. They produced a result the market did not anticipate. Horses can have an off day.

The difference is however, Winx raced nothing but low calibre duds her whole career whilst the horses those three managed to overcome raced against good quality. Winx could have had three legs and still beaten those no hopers she raced as they were so crook.

Gladys,

You have proved yourself to be a GOOSE once again.

Why is it that you can never get anything right?

Answer = You are a have a nitwit racing novice brain!

You said:  "Criterion that won 6 races out of 36"

Derrrr, Criterion actually won 7 races out of 36.

Looks like you need to either get back to your remedial maths class or at least have one of the smarter kids help you with your counting.

Please note that 35 of Criterion's race starts out of his total of 36 career starts were run in Black Type events.

His career stats are 7 wins, 7 seconds & 7 thirds almost entirely in Black Type events.

Re your: "he won his first one in the UK as a 7 year old last October."

What is your point here NOVICE, apparently you are not aware that some horses take longer to mature or in fact like good red wine may mature and get better with age.

WINX is a case in point or even old Reckless who did not win any of his multiple Cups until he coincidently was also a 7yo.

You also said: "I see William Haggas didn't think much of VE chances in an Arc."

To this I say opinions are like @holes everybody has got one.

I wouldn't take too much notice of what this pommie git has to say.

If he was or is now so smart in hindsight where was he with his good horses when WIN was being allowed to waltz around our tracks week after week, month after month & year after year accumulating the highest prizemoney of any racehorse in the entire world at the time (approx. $26.3m)

I'll tell ya where racing back home for comparably peanuts either too scared of taking on WINX or too dumb to realise the bounty of prizemoney on offer in Aus.

Take your pick. either answer will show this bloke up to be the fool that he is and you as an even bigger fool for taking any notice of his completely unfounded @hole opinions.

Whos to say, given the rig track conditions VE could not win an Arc & this nonsense about a 20-1 shot not having any hope is nonsense.

I have not checked the stats but I am reasonably sure that in the long history of the Arc and taking into account the variable track conditions present, I dare say that there is every likely hood that it has been won by a 20=1 shot or even a longer price at some stage.

Re your: "Imagine the hilarity if the next question posed to Mr Haggas was along the lines of "what price would the horses that Winx used to beat be if they started in an Arc" 

He would probably answer you with something like the following:

What sort of a racing novice git are you?

Not much to consider in this answer ya pillock, the form was more than franked by Highland Reel in an Arc."

Followed by the "HILARITY" of laughter from Mr. Haggas at your expense.

 

Freemason, Dandy Andy and El Mirada were hacks - and we all know who they beat. What price would those three be in the Arc?

Gaz 

Yes Gaz, it looks like he won his first one in the UK as a 7 year old last October. I guess that is the type of form that excites you given you were raving about Criterion that won 6 races out of 36 when you were blathering on about the horses that Winx beat.

I see William Haggas didn't think much of VE chances in an Arc. As Khap stated although he was very polite and respectful he thought she would be about a 20/1 shot, which was being kind.

Imagine the hilarity if the next question posed to Mr Haggas was along the lines of "what price would the horses that Winx used to beat be if they started in an Arc" followed up with "what did you think of the horses that Winx used to beat"

How is Geoffrey going with those two questions that we posed Gaz? 

Gladys,

You really are a racing NOVICE peanut!

Re your:

"Oh dear. Another horse that couldn't win a Group One back home comes out and goes back to back in a 4million dollar race"

that couldn't win a Group One back home?????

ADDEYBB won the Ascot G1 CHAMPION STAKES "back home"

What a GOOSE you have shown yourself to be once again!

William Haggas claims that Verry Elleegant would find it tough when discussing her chances in the Arc. He was being polite and respectful too. Truth is, the best in Aussie are a world away from the best in Europe, UK and Japan.You know those Aussie ones, the sort of horses that Winx beat.  Wonder where Rex is, but we don't miss his claptrap and twaddle in trying to talk up the Aussie contingent.  

Looks like the exhumation of Geoffrey met the same fate as other corpses of the forum when asked the age old question.

I imagine he has returned to his cerebral crypt in a happier state than remaining above ground trying to answer Khap and my question.

Leopenaws

 

Maths-  9/10 winners come from first 5 in betting.   Percentage of those 5 is > 100% - so how do u make a profit, even if u manage to get the % under 100, u still lose 1/10 = cannot win long term

Oh dear. Another horse that couldn't win a Group One back home comes out and goes back to back in a 4million dollar race that could only attract two locals.

I reckon the overseas trainers must look on us as an equine Centrelink centre for their second raters who can't make it back home.

My betting partner made me aware today of a new betting system posted on a new YouTube channel called The Horse Whisperer. The system is called 9 FROM 10 and based on the presumption that 9 out of 10 winners come from top 5 favourites. The video is quite cool, but is the system workable? It seems quite interesting.

Good luck getting any worthwhile reply from that clown Khap.  All you will get is Gary using an alias to bore us to death with another equine history story about some horse beating another horse that went past another horse on the road in a float that proves that another horse was a champion. When it comes down to getting a name all you will get is Highland Reel, a three year old on his way to Hong Kong to race whilst their champion hid in Australia to race stable mates, no hopers and any other dud they could find in pretend WFA races.

Have a look at that QE race today. Four million dollars and provision for a field of 14 with 4 emergencies and they get 2 locals.

Geoffrey what did Winx beat? You tell us. Your other mates can't get past one horse. They need your help. Prove yourself. 

Instead of dribbling over the dud Queen Elizabeth field, the $4m race with just two Aussie horses able to make it, find us the names of the best horses that Winx beat. 

Or perhaps you can tell us the names of some Aussie horses that didn't make the Queen Elizabeth field, but in your opinion could be competitive. Only two have made it, so that should not be too hard for you. 

Of course the good ones don't come out here to race local handicappers in pretend WFA races Gaz. They just send out a few Group 3 plodders and they do the job. These connections race for prestige, no money for beating no hopers.

Ah Geoffrey. Can you do what Gaz can't and tell us the names of the good horses Winx beat. If not, who were the good ones that were hiding that they have never been able to find?

Good luck with that task

Well said Geoffrey!

Gladys & Khaptingly, mix em together and what do you get?

One massive pudding head, but please oh please spare the brandy in the mix we don't want them getting any sillier do we?

Oh what the hell throw in at least a cup full of brandy it may do both me and them some good to get even sillier than the silly, silly ducks that they presently are or should I say in Gladys' case silly, silly Goose.

Yeah perhaps a little more silliness from this pair of tonks is what I need from them right now as I have been used to relying on checking in for my constant source of belly laughs from them.

But unfortunately I have gravitated to feeling a degree of empathy and sadness for them in regard to their inability to recognise the greatness in so many very, very great horses.

They are missing out on oh so much enjoyment continually wanting to portray themselves as the epitome of a pair of Debbie downers.

Seriously SECRETARIAT could be reincarnated and win the Newmarket Hcp, Lightning stakes, Cox Plate, Melbourne Cup & QE Stakes by thirty lengths in each and every race next season  and they would still say, yeah so what he only beat a bunch of donkeys, what did he beat?

I am sure that many, many people out there will share my empathy and sadness for this pair of deluded pudding headed F00L5.

It would appear that due to their ever so 5AD D3PPR3553D state of mind are continuing to miss out on the enjoyment and absolute glee of seeing GREAT horses race here in Australia that the mainstream racing public enjoys week after week.

Gladys & Khaptingly I suggest that you and your mate Debbie Downer forget about horse racing in the future and take up basket weaving as this may give you more pleasure.

You pair are a bunch of SAD, SAD uneducated horse racing novices who don't actually know how to enjoy your selves.

 

Gladys, Khrapper,

Why can't you accept that your arguments are those of bumbling clueless oafs? 

What did Winx beat? You two air-punching bumbaclarts.

Regards

Geoffrey

Khaptingly,

Re your:

"The $4m Queen Elizabeth , what a joke, what a disgrace, a race put on for imports and far from the best in the world at that."

Where were "these imports and far from the best in the world at that" when WINX was destroying them for three years in succession in the QE2 Stakes?

Answer = Hiding in COWARD'S CASTLE too scared to take on the best in the world.

The fact that she was allowed to accumulate the highest prizemoney of any horse in the world at that time is proof that they were running scared.

I see that they do not currently have any concerns about coming to load up on our bountiful high prizemoney.

What has changed?

Answer they now figure that they have a chance of winning these whereas when WINX was racing they knew that they had no hope of beating the best 2000m WFA horse in the world.

(They were NOT dills, they had diligently done their homework.)

The $4m Queen Elizabeth , what a joke, what a disgrace, a race put on for imports and far from the best in the world at that. Where are all those Aussie goats, a race in their own country for $4m you I'd!iot's.

The Queen will be off to a funeral on Saturday, I reckon there should be another one to mark the running of this debacle.

Gladys re your:

"No Gaz, our horses that contested the Japan Cup were good,"

Yeah they were all so good in FACT that al of them with the exception of the exceptional Better Loosen Up could not even win one  a Cox Plate between them let alone a Japan Cup.

1. Better Loosen Up won the Cox Plate and Japan Cup

2. Shaftesbury Avenue finished 12th of 14 in the Cox Plate prior to finishing 2 len. 3rd in the Japan Cup.

3. Naturilsm crashed in the Cox Plate but redeemed himself by finishing a credible head 2nd in the Japan Cup.

4. Lets Elope finished 5th in the Cox Plate followed by a 7th in the Japan Cup.

I reiterate the point that none of these horses with the exception of Better Loosen Up could win even one Cox Plate between them however WINX won four Cox Plates and three QE 2 Stakes placing her firmly in the company of Kingston Town only three Cox Plate wins and TULLOCH who also had three QE2 Stakes wins.

Oh and need I mention that Sir Dragonet also won a Cox Plate!

In 2020, England's William Haggas brought out two horses and they both won with Addeybb winning both the G1 Ranvet and G1 Queen Elizabeth. It was a very satisfying race as the UK beat home Australian, Japanese and New Zealand runners in the first six.

Has been a race where fairytale endings have not always been realised. Gunsynd lost his farewell race, Intergaze held off Octagonal in his last race and Grand Armee did the same to Lonhro.

However in 2019, the greatest of them all Winx ended her career with 33 straight wins including her "third QEII Stakes" in front of "43,000 adoring fans."

Multiple winners of the race as the Queen Elizabeth are Tulloch (1958, 1960, 1961), Intergaze (1997, 1999), Grand Armee (2004, 2005) and Winx (2017/2018/2019).

Other notable winners include Gay Icarus (1971), Tails (1972), Ming Dynasty (1978), Rising Prince (1985), Tristarc (1986), Our Poetic Prince (1989), Sydeston (1990), Rough Habit (1992), Veandercross (1993), Jeune (1995), Doriemus (1996), Might And Power (1998), Shogun Lodge (2001), Lonhro (2003), More Joyous (2012), Dundeel (2014) and Addeybb (2020).

No Gaz, our horses that contested the Japan Cup were good, not no hopers like we saw in the Tancred or the stable mates Winx beat.

Now tell us Gaz, who were the good WFA horses in this year's Tancred and which good WFA horses had they beaten.

This should be priceless. Get ready to laugh your guts out Khap.

Gladys,

Re your:

"Name any of those plodders in that pathetic Tancred that would have started any better than 100/1 in an Arc or a Japan Cup Gaz?"

You are showing yourself up as a racing novice yet again boofhead.

I am reasonable sure that none of our past Cox Plate runners who went on to compete in their respective Japan Cup attempts ever started at 100-1 or more.

Reason.

Probably because the bookmakers are aware that past Cox Plate winners or well performed CP competitors have mostly gone on and performed well in their respective Japan Cup attempts.

Had Sir Dragonet followed this path after blitzing the 2021 Cox Plate field there is no way that he would have started 100-1 or more.

Re your:

Running a place against other donkeys means nothing Gaz. Who have any of them beaten.

What is the point of addressing this one Gladys?

Even if they had beaten Enable you would simply say (like BC & Winx) yeah but Enable beat nothing but a bunch of donkeys.

 

 

Name any of those plodders in that pathetic Tancred that would have started any better than 100/1 in an Arc or a Japan Cup Gaz?

Running a place against other donkeys means nothing Gaz. Who have any of them beaten.

Gladys,

Re your: "In that woeful Tancred yesterday, less than half the field had won at wfa, whilst half the field had no won at Group One level,"

You are such a racing novice Gladys, here let me explain it to you.

Horses which are suited to and contest mile and a half races (2400m) are called stayers.

My question to you dopey is how do you expect horses having a propensity to display their talents well in G1 WFA staying races at 2200m plus if there are not actually any G1 WFA staying races on the Australian racing calendar greater than 2200m other than the Tancred which is of course a G1 2400m WFA race.

The only other G1 WFA race that we used to have at 2200m or greater was the 2200m WFA Doomben Cup but it is now generally run as a 2000m event and has been so for many years now.

So hopefully even a racing novice such as yourself can now realise just how dumb your comment was in relation to Australian STAYING  TYPE HORSES competing in the one and only WFA staying event programmed on the Australian racing calendar..

Your comment:  "less than half the field had won at wfa, whilst half the field had no won at Group One level,"  Derrrrrrrrrr, I wonder why dopey?

Further to this I also take exception to your futile attempts to denigrate the quality of the recent Tancred field.

Only a real totally unknowing racing novice like yourself would make an attempt such as this.

I reiterate the point that it is much harder for STAYERS to get runs on the board in WFA and or G1 races due to the unavailability of such suitable races on the racing calendar.

However as you will see from the following stats and when taking all this into account most would have to agree that it was as good a field as could be expected given the lack of G1 WFA STAYING races available on the Australian racing calendar.

However based on your silly comments I am almost certain that you were probably scratching your head and wondering why the really fast horses that won the Lightning Stakes and William Reid Stakes were not in the field.

After all to your way of thinking (i.e.NO knowledge of STAYERS) they could simply jump out of the barrier really quickly run along in front really fast and the old plodders would not be able to catch them because they are really, really fast horses.

Based on current information the following stats are indicative of the quality of the Tancred field. (all figures approx.)

1. 62% have won at either WFA or G1

2. 93% Stakes Winners

3. 79% multiple Stakes Winners

4. 100% Stakes Placed

5. 100% multiple Stakes Placed

6. 50% G1 Winners 

7. 86% G1 Placed

It was Melodey Belle's first run over 2400m.

Old McDonald did not do her any favours with that 5H!T ride, 18 len last at the 1200m,14 len last at the 1000m, then makes a move 14 wide around the turn to end up 6 len off the lead at the 300m but did make up approx. 2 len from the 300m to the winning post.

What was he thinking?

I'm pretty sure that he must have thought that he was riding Verry Elleegant rather than Melody Belle.

In any case I very doubt that even .Verry Elleegant could have won this same race with the same 5H!T McDonald ride, 14 wde around the turn???

Further to this I also very much doubt that even Sunline could have won this same race with this same 5H!T ride if she was having her first and only try at 2400m.

How much more ground would Melody Belle have travelled in the race compared to the winner?

As for Melody Belle's record in Sydney it is 5H!T, just like Vo Rogue Sydney record as a comparison I'd say.

As they say horses for courses!

Tell us about Melody Belle's form over 2400 and her wins in Sydney Gaz.

Name the good WFA horses in the Tancred Gaz.

 

Gladys,

You are showing us your racing knowledge slip again.

1. Prior to coming to Aus Sir Dragonet ran 2nd at WFA in the G1 Curragh Gold Cup to MAGICAL who had previously won 5/G1s but now including the G1 Gold Cup has a won a total of 7/G1s. (MAGICAL is a world class mare) Due to the WFA scale Sir Dragonet carried 3lb, approx. 1.5 kg more than this great mare.

2. When Sir Dragonet arrived in Aus he had new trainers.

3. Following this Sir Dragonet flogged them in the G1 Cox Plate.

4. When Sir Dragonet finished 4th in the Ranvet (beaten 2.3 len.) he was beaten by two world class gallopers in Verry Ellegant 8/G1s & Addeybb 3/G1s including the Ascot G1 Champion Stakes.

5. Sir Dragonet then flogs the supposed woeful Tancred field which includes Melody Belle, the winner of 14/G1s.

 

Gladys, re your:

"no one in Australia was declaring them the best in the World"

In the 1957 Caulfield Cup, Tulloch thrashed all the older horses in the then fastest time for 2400m on turf in the world.

Sorry dumbo, but the hype was such at the time that plenty of people including the press were declaring that Tulloch was the best turf horse in the world.

 

Those horses did not need to go anywhere Gaz. They raced against good opposition and no one in Australia was declaring them the best in the World or the greatest horse in the history of Australian racing. 

Just have a look at that appalling Tancred Stakes yesterday. The winner was a Group three horse in the UK. He had about four starts at wfa in the UK and no wins. He comes out to Australia and cleans up the goats in the Cox Plate. He follows this up with another three losses at wfa and then cleans them up in the Tancred. In that woeful Tancred yesterday, less than half the field had won at wfa, whilst half the field had no won at Group One level, not that winning Group Ones in Australia means anything these days as we have about 70 of them. These goats were racing for 1.5 million yesterday, 

I think the Christmas Cup or the Manion would produce better fields than the camels that went around yesterday. 

 

Khaptingly,

Re your: "Sure Aus horses will win G1's, mainly they are simply knocking off worse Aus horses."

Oh now I see the light (and its taken a nitwit like you to show me) horses such as Tulloch & Kingston Town were not actually great horses at all as they were simply beating up on the worse Aus and NZ horses running around at the time.

Yes I see your point now Tulloch would have had to go over and beat Ballymoss if he were to be genuinely recognised as a great horse.

Some of Ballymoss' wins included:

1957 GB St Leger Stakes Cr 14F
1957 IRE Irish Derby Stakes Cr 12F
1958 FR Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe Pr 2400m
1958 GB Coronation Cup Pr 12F
1958 GB King George VI And Queen Elizabeth Stakes Pr 12F
1958 GB The Eclipse Stakes Pr 10F

 

Similarly to your way of thinking Kingston Town would have had to go over an beat Spectacular Bid to be genuinely recognised as a great horse.

Some of Spectacular Bid's wins included:

1979 USA Blue Grass Stakes G1 8F
1979 USA Flamingo Stakes G1 8F
1979 USA Florida Derby G1 9F
1979 USA Kentucky Derby G1 10F
1979 USA Laurel Futurity G1 8.5F
1979 USA Marlboro Cup Handicap G1 9F
1979 USA Preakness Stakes G1 9.5F
1980 USA Amory L Haskell Handicap G1 9F
1980 USA Californian Stakes G1 9F
1980 USA Charles H Strub Stakes G1 10F
1980 USA Santa Anita Handicap G1 10F
1980 USA Woodward Stakes G1 10F
1979 USA Meadowlands Cup G2 10F
1979 USA Mervyn Leroy Handicap G2 8.5F
1979 USA San Fernando Stakes G2 9F
1980 USA Malibu Stakes G2 7F
1979 USA Washington Park Stakes G3 9F
1978 USA Champagne Stakes Pr 8F
1978 USA Heritage Stakes Pr 8.5F
1978 USA World's Playground Stakes Pr 7F

 

Hold on Khap, I can feel the Ballad of Highland Reel getting wheeled out. That poor horse, his ears must burn. No other horse is ever mentioned because they were just too hopeless. When Winx retired all those no hopers were supposed to shine but a couple of nine year olds came out and towelled them.

Better still, what about all the good ones that were hiding. Not only have they never been found, these clowns can't even remember their names.

theking proves again that he is the boofhead. It no point telling us how many G1's the Aus and NZ horses won, unless you tell us how many imports ran in those races and what level they reached at home. Sure Aus horses will win G1's, mainly they are simply knocking off worse Aus horses. You may not have realised this, theking, but if you have 10 Aus horses in a field of 10, one of them will win the race, if there is no dead-heat, no matter how slow they all are.

Do you feel you can't get your point across? With all your upper-case and bold fonts, it appears that way.  

Ah Geoffrey has made a comeback and immediately reminded us of his cerebral challenges.

Your dull wittedness failed to grasp the irony of the number one saddlecloth and like Gaz and his aliases immediately shot off your stupid mouth.

Have you ever recovered from that tipping towelling I gave you that forced you to leave the forum for three months?

That is my point Gaz, you bonehead.

It didn't matter to the person who built the statue because they knew that the only people who would be looking at it would be morons like you that thought she beat good horses.

I imagine your Winx flag and cap would take pride of place on your garage wall next to your hula hoop and yo yo.

I wonder where all the other statues that she defeated on the track are now. Remember when she retired and all the knobs tried to tell us that those who finished behind her would have their day now. No they didn't, they were not good enough.

theking is all too quick to get on here and criticise Gladys and myself, but theking can't muster the courage to address the question of what is the best Aussie bred horse that Winx defeated. Or this question, "what the best five horses that Winx defeated ?". 

Have a shot at it, theking, rather than firing your cheapshots. 

 

"Gladys what a twat you are"

The greatest comment on this forum for years.

No.1 at WFA as a mare.... you bumbling oaf.

Regards

Geoffrey

Gladys,

Re your: 

"The only time she ever carried the number one saddlecloth"  

The overwhelming majority of her races and G1 wins were in WFA races and as such being a mare as opposed to a stallion or gelding she was NEVER going to run in the no1 saddlecloth unless of course it was as an older mare in a WFA race where there were NO Stallions or Geldings of much the same age as her competing.

Derrrrrr, how often does a mare EVER carry the no1 saddlecloth in a WFA race?

When was the last time a mare carried the no1 sasddlecloth in a WFA race?

 

Gladys what a twat you are.

Yet another display of your novice racing ignorance. 

Do you even know what WFA means?

PS

I also agree that the choice of the no1 saddlecloth for her statue is a poor choice as in my opinion this number should in general be reserved for great handicappers and not for WFA stars.

Good point Gladys. A few think she was number 1, that is probably as deeply as they thought about that. Winx fans have similar shallow thoughts and a decent lack of memory. 

As for theking, you have yet to tell us, who is the best Aussie bred horse that Winx defeated. We know why, you have not, not even your mates could help you out.

Glen Boss believes the current crop of 3yo's just haven't been good enough. When was the last time they were any good? Aussie donkeys year after year. Absolute goats mainly.

Khaptingly,

Hey boofhead, forget about the Aus bred horses, it is you who is the DONKEY.

Re your:

"what about the absolute Aussie donkeys running around in Group 1's at Rosehill. Out come the imports Favourite Moon, Verry Elleegant, Addeybb and just put the Aussie goats away.

1. Your "Favourite Moon' (actually Favorite Moon) only won a G3 not a G1.

2. Yes Verry Elleegant (who appears to be a world class racehorse) is in fact NZ bred but it is worth noting that three out of her four grandparents are Aus bred. 

3. The supposed Aussie donkeys won three out of the five G1 races on the day.

4. NZ horses won only two out of the five G1 races on the day.

5. Aus bred and NZ horses combined won ALL of the G1 races on the day.

6. European imports, try as they might won nil G1s on the day.

That bronze statue of Winx is really interesting. She carries the number one saddlecloth. The only time she ever carried the number one saddlecloth was when she was flogged by First Seal.

Almost as funny as the quality of horses she used to beat.

You are being quite generous by saying "not much" Khap.

The answer is nuthin.

Talking about the goats that Winx defeated, which is what most of us realise, what about the absolute Aussie donkeys running around in Group 1's at Rosehill. Out come the imports Favourite Moon, Verry Elleegant, Addeybb and just put the Aussie goats away.

 

What did Winx beat ? Not much.

Gladys,

Both you and that Cowardly Lion remind me of the wingy little kid that screams and bawls while chucking a tantrum and howling, I want, I want, waaaa, waaaa, waaaaa, I want, waaa, waa, waaaaa but when asked what is it that they actually want, they are in such a state that they don't actually know.

Just like the way the pair of you bleat on and on about how many Group 1 races are so overated and should be downgraded to G2, G3 & even Listed race level or even less, but when asked which races would you change?

There is NO answer because like the bratty little kid neither of you actually know.

Or is it that neither of you have the courage to back up any of your statements and tell us which races you think should be downgraded?

Forget the status of group races Gaz/King, I think whoever is in charge of your mental institution needs to upgrade your status to critical!

Gladys,

Heres your big chance to un GOOSE yoursef Glad, gees if you get this one right I may even allow you to put your Goosey [email protected] back on.

Which ten races included in the current Australian racing calendar would you change from G1 status to G2 status?

After all, according to you, "most are really only Welters at best." therefore should be easy for you.

I read an article the other day in a journal and the author of the article is a noted psychiatrist. It seems that hallucinary drugs are being considered in the treatment of some patients with serious mental disorders.

It seems they have commenced already.

Lion Hunter,

You seem like a very polite, consevative well mannered sort of person.

Its highly obvious that your twenty years of servitude in mucking out the stalls for the gentry has heavily infuenced your ability and willingness to portray a continual polite demeanor.

"Owes that Guv, oright, all done aye?"

I am not disputing your claims of working in the industry over there for two decades, in fact you probably will well remember me.

I am the toff that was dressed in a rather fine tweed coat and flat cap that used to visit your stables and say to you on more than one occasion "Look threre old boy, you have missed a bit of muck there lad."

"This is not good enough lad, I will not have my fine horses standing in muck half way up their cannons.'

Re your:

"There once was a time when winning a G1 in this country actually meant something, now they are a dime a dozen."

dime a dozen??? are you that brain dead that you are not aware of the lucrative prizemoney available in this country for winning a G1.

That is why WINX was the highest prizemoney winner in the entire world dopey.

Re your:

"most of the so called major G1’s in this country are run in the autumn and the spring, we just run more of them in that period."

I am not disputing this but given the incredible amount of prizemoney won by WINX I am somewhat surprised that more high class ovesas horses don't plan to make the trip and take some of our booty home with them.

They could simply come iover at the start of their off season then stay on for (our Autumn) before returning home with a bit of time up their sleeves to get ready for attempting to knock off a couple of their own G1s.

Some have tried and been successful while others have failed but the great thing about this is that it gives us a great guide to just how good our G1 horses really are.

Re your:

"You say I can’t answer "As to which G1 races should be changed from G1 status to G2 status” No! just not prepared to give in to your intimidation and name calling. I have no respect for bullies."

So now when you can't answer a question after shooting your big mouth off or not having the inestinal fortitude to back up your opinion with an answer you simple get out of it by playing the intimidation card.

WEAK A5 P155

Intimidation? what a lot of poppy cock, you simply do NOT have the nous or possibly the intellect to back up your opinions with some sensible or profound suggestions.

I would love to see you on who wants to be a millionaire if they asked you a question that you did NOT know the answer to.

Yes I can see it now, no that question is far too hard for me and in fact I feel that you are trying to INTIMIDATE me, I am going to sue this televisin station for puting me undr pressure and INTIMIDATING me.

Good luck with that one you precious little petal.

You say:

"you seem like such a sad individual" 

Sorry Lion Hunter on the contrary you are the SAD one in fact you remind me of that SAD quivering LION in the Wizard of Oz who was wanting to get the HEART of a LION so that he could display some courage.

Come on Lion Hunter lets see you man up (if you can) and display the courage of your convictions without hiding behind the INTIMIDATION CARD and give us an opinion, your opinion of what current (dime a dozen) G1s should be reduced to G2 status.

Come on Lion Hunter you have talked the talk now lets see you walk the wak.

Would it help if I reduce it from ten G1s down to say 6 G1s that you feel could be reduced down to G2 status?

Have a go ya mug or simply go back to snivelling and quivering in the corner of one of the empty horse stalls.

Cheers from,

Your JOLLY OLD KING

 

Theking, You are right, horses are not like machines which is why most of the so called major G1’s in this country are run in the autumn and the spring, we just run more of them in that period. There once was a time when winning a G1 in this country actually meant something, now they are a dime a dozen.

You say I know how many G1 races are run in the UK and France because you told me so, wrong! more likely because I worked in the industry there for more than two decades.

You say I can’t answer "As to which G1 races should be changed from G1 status to G2 status” No! just not prepared to give in to your intimidation and name calling. I have no respect for bullies.

You say you are a BIG FAT JOLLY OLD KING, geez I almost feel sorry for you, must be why you seem like such a sad individual who gets his kicks from trying to bully and intimidate people.

Lion Hunter,

Re your:

"I can’t see what average G1’s per month has to do with it, (your point is?)"

Perhaps you have NOT realised it yet but horses are not machines.

Is it any wonder that the UK & Europe have way less G1s than us. derrrrr.

As the yanks say do the math.

If they are only conducting their G1 racing over approximately half of the year then they (the horses) can only possibly compete in about half of the number(approx.) of G1s that we do over nearly a full year.

Like I said LH horses are NOT machines they could NOT possibly compete in a G1 every 2 or 3 weeks enabling them to have a similar number of G1s as us who race over the whole year.

You also said:

"we all know that Europe and the UK compress their seasons because of their seasonal weather conditions, they still run considerably less G1’s than we do per season."

Yes you know this NOW because I pointed it out to you, hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it LH?

Re your:

"So what were the stringent qualifying criteria that the maidener Seamus Award satisfied to qualify for the Cox Plate some years back which is supposed to be the elite WFA race in this country"

Impressive ead up performances, thence discetion by the selection committee voting like many 3yos before him to be included. in the field.

"As to which G1 races should be changed from G1 status to G2 status, even you should be smart enough to be able to answer that one."

Cant answer the question aye?

What’s the reason for the insults in your reply, make you feel like a big man does it or do you think that you can intimidate me.

I am already a BIG man, I am a BIG FAT JOLLY OLD KING.

I am soryy if you feel intimidated LH as that was NOT my intention, afterall they are only words, why go getting yourself all upset you precious little petal.

Gladys glad to see you actually admitting that you were WRONG about Sons of John almost winning a G1 race.

Gladys re your:

"Of the 70 odd Group Ones we have, most are really only Welters at best."

Gladys heres your big chance to prove that you are not as big a GOOSE as you appear to be.

Which ten races included in the current Australian racing calendar would you change from G1 status to G2 status?

 

 

 

That sums it up pretty well by naming those two Gaz.

Group One or Group Two who cares. Of the 70 odd Group Ones we have, most are really only Welters at best.

If you don't believe  me just have a look at the duds that contested Winx's races.

Hey Gladys the GOOSE you wrote:

"Sons Of John almost won a Group One. Had he prevailed he too could have joined the stellar opposition Winx met in the Cox Plate."

Almost won a G1???

What was that race and how far was this little pit pony beaten?

Heres your big chance to un GOOSE yoursef Glad, gees if you get this one right I may even allow you to put your Goosey [email protected] back on.

That aside, he was a gutsy "LITTLE" horse.

I saw him in the flesh in retirement recently at his ex traines facility.

An interesting fact that Jason pointed out to me was that Sons of John had the narrowest beaten margin (0.2len) by Winx in any of her wins (2015 G2 Theo Marks 1300m) but upon doing a little further research, while yes this is true but Foxplay also achieved the same beaten margin 0.2 len when running 2nd to WINX in the 2017 G2 Warwick Stakes 1400m.

theking, I did saymore than just about any other country” because I knew that the US have considerably more Grade 1 races than we have G1 races.

I can’t see what average G1’s per month has to do with it, (your point is?) and we all know that Europe and the UK compress their seasons because of their seasonal weather conditions, they still run considerably less G1’s than we do per season.

So what were the stringent qualifying criteria that the maidener Seamus Award satisfied to qualify for the Cox Plate some years back which is supposed to be the elite WFA race in this country.  

As to which G1 races should be changed from G1 status to G2 status, even you should be smart enough to be able to answer that one.

What’s the reason for the insults in your reply, make you feel like a big man does it or do you think that you can intimidate me.

Look out Lion Hunter, I warned you that GOOSE talk is catching.

Quick, if I pull your [email protected] down real quick you may just avoid joining the GOSE brigade.

Re your: "The truth of the matter is that when you run about 70 G1 races in any particular season which is far more than just about any other country"

Sorry dufus but the USA  runs about 108 Grade 1 races per year and countries like the UK (6 months) & France (5 months) have a very limited G1 flat racing season. (they don't run G1s in the snow)

The UK runs 32 G1s iduring a six month period. (average 5.33 G1s per month)

France runs 27 G1s within five G1 racing months. (average 5.4 G1s per month)

I we use your "70 G1s in any particular season" as a guide perhaps you could work out for us (if you have te ability) the average number of G1s per month in Australia to enable what I would consider a fairer comparison with some other countries that only have G1 racing for approx. half of the year.

Lion Hunter you say:

"theking makes the big mistake of believing just because a horse has won a G1 race or two that they are quality horse fresh."

Mistake???

Sorry LH you are the one who has made the mistake, any horse that takes its place in a G! race is put into the field on merit as it has to satisfy stringent qualifying criteria.

You are such a novice, the way you talk it would appear that you think along the following lines.

Yeah, I just bought this horse at the yearling sales, first I am going to race him in the G1 Golden Slpper as a 2yo, then later on in the G1 Cox Plate as a 3yo and then in the G1 Caulfield Cup as a 4yo and then in the G1 Melbourne Cup as a 5yo becuse those are the races that I want him to run in.

Lion Hunter you also said:

"Half the G1 races run in Australia in any one season are barely G2 standard at best."

Lion Hunter heres your big chance to prove that you are not as big a dill as you appear to be.

Which ten races included in the current Australian racing calendar would you change from G1 status to G2 status?

Perhaps a novice like yourself would be well advised to read the following:

Group 1 races are a chance for the best racers in the world to show off their skill in style. As the highest ranking in quality, fanfare and price money among the Class 1 races, the Group 1 meetings attract high rolling punters and high profile owners, trainers and horses. Group 1 races include some of the longest standing race meetings in the WORLD, such as the Classic Races, making them events not only rich in action but also in historical background.

Sons Of John almost won a Group One. Had he prevailed he too could have joined the stellar opposition Winx met in the Cox Plate.

At least he wasn't another stable mate comprising the guard of honour or riding shotgun.

theking makes the big mistake of believing just because a horse has won a G1 race or two that they are quality horse fresh. The truth of the matter is that when you run about 70 G1 races in any particular season which is far more than just about any other country the races have to won by something. Half the G1 races run in Australia in any one season are barely G2 standard at best.

Gladys the GOOSE,

Re your: 

"Tell us all about the rest of them that made up the field Gaz.

Stable mates, handicappers and non winning duds."

Every one of the horses in the 2015 Cox Plate field flogged by WINX was justified in being placed in this field due to their earlier quality form.

You dont get into a Cox Plate without merit GOOSE.

All of the runners finishing behind Winx, had past form which justified them being in this field. 

Here I'll make it simple (opeative word) for you Gladys

Pick five horses at random or even selectively pick five horses out of this field and I will state the past form that justified each and every one of them being included in this Cox Plate field.

Put up or Shut Up GOOSE!

 

More GOOSE talk from Khapoo

 Re you comments in relation to:

The QE Stakes in Sydney and your reference to "no Australian bred horse, except Winx, has won since 2010." 

AND

"What a list of stars...not."

GOOSE, GOOSE, GOOSE, GOOSE to you Khapoo, one for each of the average of G1 wins.

The winners of this race since 2010 and up to when WINX won have achieved an average of 4/G1s each.

The least amount of G1s wins amongst this group, My Kingdom of Fife was no slouch either, 1/G1 win plus a 2nd beaten 0.2 len in a G1 Doomben Cup when beaten by the dual G1 Dommben Cup winner Scenic Shot who also won a G1 Makinnon, 5/G2s & 4/Listed races. 

My Kingdom of Fife also won 1/G2 & 2/G3s.

And even Road to Rock the 2010 winner won 2/G1s and was also 2nd in a G1 Doncaster when beaten only 0.2 len as well as also winning 2/G2s & 2/Listed races.

Then following WINX we find the winner Addeybb who won 3/G1s.

Like I said Khapoo, I think that GOOSE talk is catching and you are the latest victim to have his [email protected] well and truely fulled down!

If its had its neck stretched long like a GOOSE, it honks like a GOOSE and no longer wears [email protected] then it is very likely to be a GOOSE!

Gladys you obviously have no concept of what it takes to be accepted as a an Australian bred thoroughbred horse or what this term actually even means for that matter.

I will put it simply for you dopey.

It doesnt matter where the thoroghbred stallion (father) was born or where the thoroughbred brood mare (mother) was born it only matters where the foal (baby horse) is born.

If the fthoroughbred foal (baby horse) is BORN in Australia then it is Australian bred,

Case in point the CHAMPION AUSTRALIAN bred thoroughbred mare WINX.

Yes Gladys you really are very much a dill. 

Street Cry that great Australian horse.

Hey Khap, the GOOSE syndrome must be catching.

By attempting to damn the Caulfield Stakes and its non Australian bred winners all you have done to promote WINX against your own pathetic atempt to discredit her.

Hey dopey Aus bred WINX won more G1s than all of your six nominated non Aus bred Caulfield Stakes winners put together.

Thats a pretty mean feat when you consider that among those six they include the outstanding Dundeel 6/G1s & More Joyous 8/G1s and she still out totals this lot with more G1 wins.

Not quite sure why you are attempting to denigrate the Caulfield Stakes with your weird logic of mentioning horses like Descardo who won 2/G1s including a Caulfield Cup

OR

Gailo Chop who won 3/G1s including a Makinnon Stakes & a Ranvet.

Further to this you have shot yourself in the foot big time in attempting to denigrate the Caulfield Stakes as rather than being as selective as you lets look at some of the other winners of the Caulfield Stakes around this time.

Benbatl 3/G1s, Criterion 4/G1s, Fawkner 3/G1s inc a Caulfield Cup, Atlantic Jewel 4/G1s, Ocean Park 5/G1s inc a Cox Plate, So You Think 10/G1s.

I rest my case, like I said the GOOSE syndrome must must be catching as all you have done is to denigrate yourself and in doing so you have self promoted the GREAT AUS BRED CHAMPION MARE WINX.

 

theking is referring to the QE Stakes in Sydney. The same race that no Australian bred horse, except Winx, has won since 2010. Just shows again what goats we have bred in this country in that time. The race has been won by Addeybb, Lucia Valentina, Criterion, Reliable Man, My Kingdom of Fife and Road to Rock. What a list of stars...not. And the Caulfield Stakes won by Descardo and Gailo Chop in that time. But that is ok, theking, just keep referring to races that not many can remember who won, and not many others would want to remember either. While you are doing that you can continue to avoid the hard question as to who are the best horses that Winx beat. After all these years you have come up with just one horse that has any hint of credibility. 

Tell us all about the rest of them that made up the field Gaz.

Stable mates, handicappers and non winning duds.

Gladys re your:

"Those Cox Plates Winx won were contested by horses who had not won at wfa, had not won at the distance and had not won at Group One level, but that doesn't matter because it was called The Cox" Plate.

Gladys, I am starting to think that you enjoy me pulling your [email protected] down time and time again.

These ones straight off the top of my head , no further research will be undertaken as these two will prove you GOOSE enough.

CRITERION 2nd to WINX in the 2015 Cox Plate had won the 2015 G1WFA QE Stakes 2000m in April 2015 as well as the 2015 G1 WFA Caulfield Stakes 2000m just prior to the Cox Plate.

Further to this he had also won two other G1s including one over 2000m.

Benbatl 2nd to WINX in the 2018 Cox Plate had just won the 2018 G1 WFA Caulfield Stakes 2000m.

WHAT A GOOSE YOU ARE.

 

 

Khap.

No "off day" champ. Highland Reel was so impressive in the Cox that he was installed as 2nd fave at its following run against Flintshire. Note that HR could only make 3rd fave against Winx.

Fancy that. It was the same race that another winner had won. I always thought a race's quality was determined by who contested it, not what it was called.

Those Cox Plates Winx won were contested by horses who had not won at wfa, had not won at the distance and had not won at Group One level, but that doesn't matter because it was called The Cox Plate.

theking are you for real. Highland Reel. One horse. Is that all she beat. You come up with one horse. What if it was not at it's best in Australia? I guess at least he travelled to another country. 

You just have to love reverse engineering.

While you are providing your alias with a history lesson Gaz, care to tell us why Regumate is banned almost everywhere?

HIGLAND REEL won approx. A$ 11.6 million

Yeah WINX beat nuthin (NOT)

Black Type Year Course FP Margin Race Name WT Race PM Earnings
G1 2017 SHA TIN 1 1.6L THE LONGINES HONG KONG VASE 3U OPEN 2400m 57.0 $3,045,690 $1,736,041
G1 2017 ASCOT 1 0.1L Prince Of Wales's S. 4U OPEN 2004m 57.0 $1,218,990 $691,291
G1 2017 EPSOM DOWNS 1 1.8L Investec Coronation Cup (Group 1) 4U OPEN 2423m 57.0 $682,640 $387,123
G1 2016 SANTA ANITA 1 1.8L Longines Breeders' Cup Turf (Grade 1) (3yo ) (Turf) 3U 2414m 57.0 $2,403,300 $742,838
G1 2016 ASCOT 1 1.2L King George VI And Queen Elizabeth Stakes (Group 1) (Sponsored By Qipco) (British Champions Series) 3U OPEN 2414m 60.5 $2,194,730 $1,244,628
G1 2015 SHA TIN 1 1.4L THE LONGINES HONG KONG VASE 3U OPEN 2400m 55.0 $2,960,970 $1,687,752
G1 2015 ARLINGTON 1 5.2L Secretariat Stakes (Grade 1) (3yo) (Turf) 3 2012m 55.0 $366,670 $122,224

Well done Khaptingly, I see that you have now got your short term memory back and can now remember what happened with the post that you forgot you posted & your subsequent re posting of same

It would appear that that glass of warm milk and the doubling up of your MED5 has worked wonders for you.

But please do not attempt to convince anybody that it was the computer, like "no it wasn't me it was the computer that did it" as you will only appear to be a bigger fool than you already are.

There is an old saying about people who foolishly try and convince others that it was not their fault and that it must have been the computer that made the mistake and that is "5HIT IN 5HIT OUT".

Re your:

"And more to the point try to find some credentials amongst the Winx beaten brigade and let us know what you come up with."

I have addressed this ad nauseam in the past, why raise this again?

Perhaps there is even more of a problem with your short term memory banks than I originally thought.

Suffice to say Khaptingly I do not need to say anymore than to reiterate the following to you once again.

One horse she flogged will do, nothing else needs to be said.

She flogged the International WFA superstar Highland Reel in the 2015 Cox Plate by 5.6 lengths when carrying WFA of half a kilo less than him.

Some seven weeks later he flogged another International superstar FLINTSHIRE in the G1 Hong Kong Vase.

It is also worth noting that just prior to his 3rd in the 2015 Cox Plate he had recently won the Grade 1 Secretariat Stakes.

This is a good formline race as was displayed by the 2014 Cox Plate winner Adelaide the year before who also won this same race prior to winning the Cox Plate.

theking, is that the best you can do. Pick holes in my contributions rather than talk about Winx or more importantly her poorly performed opposition. Poor form from you too. 

It appeared my first post was not accepted so I decided to change the wording and send it again and in the end both got through. This is unusual given the high level of filtering and blocked posts that has applied to my contributions in recent years. So blame the slowness of posts getting displayed rather than throwing feathers at me. 

And more to the point try to find some credentials amongst the Winx beaten brigade and let us know what you come up with.

This from poor old Khaptingly,

"Well that is appropriate, after all that is mostly what she beat up on for a big part of her career. Statues."

Then soon after:

"How appropriate, after all, that is what she beat up on for a great part of her career, statues. How appropriate, after all, that is what she beat up on for a great part of her career, statues."

Sorry to be the one to inform old chap but it appears that your short term memoryory is totally shot.

Probably best if you get back into bed and have the nurse give you a warm glass of milk and a double dose of your MED5.

Given your latest performance Khaptingly I very much doubt whether you even have the ability to remember who WINX is.

 

 

 

I see a bronze statue of Winx has been unveiled.

How appropriate, after all, that is what she beat up on for a great part of her career, statues. 

I see there is now a bronze statue of Winx standing somewhere, who cares where. 

Well that is appropriate, after all that is mostly what she beat up on for a big part of her career. Statues. 

Of course Channel 7 advised viewers that a statue was unveiled of the unbeatable mare. And they displayed that message or similar to it, across the screen. That is a false statement as most of us know. But no point letting let the truth get in the way of hype and hysteria.

Forget about What did Winx beat?

Its more about what did theking beat?

He beat goofy Gladys into submission by way of his superior intellect.

GOTCHA again dopey.

My supposed non funny post has had the desired effect.

Derr this is not the first time that I have lured you out of your sulking by simply throwing out an earistable (irresistible) red herring for you to munch down on hook line and sinker.

All it takes is an obvios little spelling or grammar mistake & you cant resist attempting to prove your delusional superiority.

The proof of the red herring pudding is in the eating you fool.

You are such a mug.

What happened to your:

"I will try and help you Gaz. In future I will only give you a reply when you post under your name."

Answer, you swallowed a red herring which you couldnt resist.

Enough of the sulking Gladys, come on be your old silly self again I must admit I have been missing a good belly laugh at your expense recently but having GOTCHA again has made up for it!

Ha, ha ,haa, haaaaa from your Jolly Old KING

 

 

Gaz, the terminology is "Hear Ye" not "Here Ye". It is used to draw attention not to call a dog, you cretin.

If you are trying to be funny learn how to spell you dullard. The only thing funny about your post is your appalling spelling.

A job well done KING, it would appear that you have finally made that cretin Gladys realise that she has got nuthin.

Obviously this imbecile has now been laughed off this thread one too many times for her liking and has now chosen to punt herself off this forum.

She has finally realised that she can not compete against the superior intellect of her KING.

Thanks for the amusement Gladys, it was a hoot while it lasted you poor uneducated dunderhead.

Here ye, here ye, Gladys has been laughed off this forum one too many times and punted herself fom any further comment becuse she has realised that she's got nuthin.

All hail the SUPERIOR INTELLECT OF THE KING!

Gladys, I suggest that you go back to boring the lady behind the TAB window time and time again with your relentless inept novice racing opinions but don't be too surprised if she feigns a bilious attack and shuts the window in your face once again.

 

Gladys, re your latest bit of childishness:

"I will try and help you Gaz. In future I will only give you a reply when you post under your name."

What are you? ten years old ?

The only thing you left out was NERNY, NERNY at the end.

The reality is that you have opened your stupid big mouth & dribbled 5H!T about these good ones that went to Hong Kong from Aus & NZ but you cant come up with any names of these horses that would have troubled WINX at 2000m WFA.

What does it matter who is asking the question?

Even if it was the Queen of England, the Pope or the Prime minister of Aus asking the questions you still would not be able to come up with names because you are a dunderhead plain & simple (operative word)

You cant give answers because you have got nuthin.

Please don't change Gladys as you are a continual source of amusement for your Jolly Old King!

Not sure how I landed here. I should have taken that left turn at Coonabarabran.

Lordie!

Just imagine how much easier life would be for Gary if only Winx had beaten a decent horse in her career instead of stable mates, hacks and duds.

If that had happened he would never had to invent that alias thekrud, he would not have to post those monotonous boring tomes denigrating past champions and would not have had to continue being such a dill.

I will try and help you Gaz. In future I will only give you a reply when you post under your name. Why you adopted the name of that imbecile who was laughed at and then punted off that other forum is beyond me.

Dear oh dear, poor old Gladys has had them pulled down & they are obviously in one hell of a knot.

Gladys, full of bravado you blart on about all the good ones from Aus & NZ that have been sent to Hong Kong to race but when I ask you who are these good ones that might have tested WINX over 2000m at WFA you can not come up with one name.

Further to this you say: "It does not ask who she might have beaten if she raced overseas, it does not ask which overseas horses would have beaten her, it doesn't ask anything like it Einstein. "

I didn't "ask who she might have beaten if she raced overseas," AND "I did not ask which overseas horses would have beaten her"

No, I specifically asked about the horses which you referred to as having been taken from Aus & NZ to Hong Kong to race as opposed to OVERSEAS HORSES IN GENERAL.

These were the questions I asked of you:

"who are or were these NZ or Australian horses racing in HK that would have troubled WINX or any other horses for that matter in 2000m WFA races like the Hong Kong Gold Cup, QE II Cup or the Hong Kong Cup? AND

"just who are these NZ or Aus 2000m WFA stars sold to Hong Kong that would have given WINX a toweling or at least a run for her money?"

Please note that it was you who first went outside the topic at hand by going off on a tangent and making reference to the supposed good horses that had been taken from Aus & NZ to race in Hong Kong not me.

First Seal won only one race over 1600m out of six starts and in the others she was beaten an average of 5.2 lengths per race. She had two starts over 2000m for NO wins including being beaten by the lowly Hampton Court in the Champion Stakes (Hampton Court had eleven Group races for only one Group win). Her floggings by WINX - In the George Ryder 1500m by 4.7 lengths when finishing 4th And In the Doncaster 1600m by 13.5 lengths when finishing 12th of 15 says it all really.

If First Seal could have ever been considered a contender to beat WINX over 2000m at WFA answer me this one question. Where was she around about the time that WINX was winning her second Cox Plate by eight lengths in 2016?

ANSWER - Being flogged by I am a Star in the G1 Meyer Classic 1600m when finishing 8th of fifteen. Says it all really. First Seal couldn't run a decent 1600m let alone trouble a bunch of riding school horses over 2000m.

Now go and get a few remedial reading lessons you moron.

Before a cretin like you calls anyone a boofhead Gaz, have a look at the subject of the thread you created.

It does not ask who she might have beaten if she raced overseas, it does not ask which overseas horses would have beaten her, it doesn't ask anything like it Einstein. As you are too retarded to read and understand your own moronic question I will explain it to you. It asks who did she beat. The answer repeated for the hundredth time is "nuthin"!

Overseas horses mean nothing in this thread because connections knew what would happen if they tried on anything that was not a stablemate, aged handicapper or a general no hoper.

Now go and get a few remedial reading lessons you moron.

Gladys,

Hey boof head,

Did First Seal retire due to injury before or after it raced in Hong Kong?

Easy Gaz. First Seal. If she hadn't retired due to injury she would have continued towelling her. Five out of six if I remember correctly. One of those races also included the fabulous Earthquake you love to use as some kind of guide to greatness.

Gladys just who are or were these NZ or Australian horses racing in HK that would have troubled WINX or any other horses for that matter in 2000m WFA races like the Hong Kong Gold Cup, QE II Cup or the Hong Kong Cup?

Come on Gladys, just who are these NZ or Aus 2000m WFA stars sold to Hong Kong that would have given WINX a toweling or at least a run for her money?

Names please Gladys.

Put up or shut up IMBO.

Failure to provide any names will be indicative of you having yeilded to the superior intellect of your KING.

Gladys,

You wrote: "revert back to the alias and bring out the old diversion of denigrating champions in an attempt to steer clear of the subject topic."

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black,

My comments re Earthquake being flogged by WINX at her first start as a 3yo were entirely relevant to the subject topic ie. What did Winx beat? 

It is a FACT that WINX flogged Earthquake in the Coolmore Furious Stakes   1200m at her first start as a 3yo.

Yes, I was sticking to the subject topic, unlike you with your attempts "to steer clear of the subject topic." by making irrelevant references to both Luskin star & Manikato.

Neither of these two horses ever raced against WINX dufus.

Further to this you are continually making references to horses who beat WINX.

Again how is this at all relevant to the topic at hand ie. What did Winx beat?

You also wrote:

"She beat Earthquake is your reply.  You forgot to mention who won that race however, you pathetic simpleton."

Obviously you are a bit slow or you simply do not comprehend what you read so I will post it again for you.

You can read it again here Gladys but I suggest that you get either an adult or one of the older kids to help you comprehend what you are reading.

At her (WINX) first start as a 3yo she flogged Earthquake when SHE WON the Coolmore Furious Stakes   1200m. 

WINX won the race you simpleton.

As for your: "bring out the old diversion of denigrating champions"

I did NOT denigrate Luskin Star or Manikato, all I did was state the FACTS about these two horses.

What's the problem here Gladys, is it that the truth hurts?

No one is denigrating these horses I am simply presenting the FACTS but it would appear that in your mind these FACTS self denigrate the both of these horses.

Bow to your King boof head!

 

CORRECTION

Gary re: "revert back"

I think that you will find that this expression  could be classed as an OXYMORON, is it any wonder that it took an OX Gladys to compose it.

As they say in the classics Gladys, if the shoe fits wear it.

Gary re:

"revert back"

I think that you will find that this expression  could be classed as an OXYMORON, is it any wonder that an OX Gladys to compose it.

As they say in the classics Gladys, if the shoe fits wear it.

I never criticise grammar, but "revert back" puts an end to that.

Yes Gaz. After once again having your ears soundly boxed and once again exposed as an air headed windbag you revert back to the alias and bring out the old diversion of denigrating champions in an attempt to steer clear of the subject topic.

She beat Earthquake is your reply.  You forgot to mention who won that race however, you pathetic simpleton.

Gladys,

I am not sure why you are referencing Luskin Star in the same breath as the Blue Diamond as this dud sprinter did not even race in a Blue Diamond.

This supposed gun sprinter NEVER won an open company non black type, Listed or Group race over 1200m in his entire racing career.

Not only did he not win an open company race over 1200m he also proved himself to be an even bigger dud when he finished 9th of 14 in the Cox Plate when sent out as a 7/4 favourite.

As for Manikato,  he was also NOT a gun sprinter as he NEVER won a G1 1200m race in his entire racing career and similarly failed at 2000m in  both of his attempts at this distance.

Gee Gaz. A little while ago the Blue Diamond and Slipper were nothing races to you when I mentioned the names of Luskin Star and Manikato yet now just running a place in the Slipper is enough to justify your claim she was the greatest in history and Worlds best.

Earthquake, struth. Oh well, better than Invictus Prince and Sons of John I guess.

Gladys,

No dopey, you are WRONG yet again.

She (WINX) did in FACT flog Earthquake at her first start as a 3yo.

Typical of you, simply a case of more 5H!t dribbling from your mouth and posting before you check the actual FACTS,

Read it and weep oh dopey one.

Kiss my Royal Ring goose!

1st-6   6/09/2014.   2.75L x 0.1L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   Coolmore Furious Stakes   1200m.    56kg   1:11.99.   Heavy9, $6.50.   Alpha Miss 56 $26 2nd   Earthquake 56 $2.05F 3rd    AUD 106,700   inc $1,700 trophy

Oh the humanity!

I just love that post about Earthquake Gaz. Like most of your comments one only has to scratch the surface to see you are once again struggling with telling the truth. 

Earthquake only ever had the one and only start at 1400 metres and it is true that Winx defeated her. It was in the Tea Rose in 2014.

What you failed to mention was that Winx did not win that race, she came second. She was flogged by the winner, First Seal. Remember First Seal Gaz? Five out of six times she finished ahead of Winx.

Khap is right. Go and seek further guidance from the cult, you moron.

Gladys you said: "Anything half good coming out of NZ or Australia is either sent to stud so the greedy breeders can profit or

sold overseas to HK."

I am afraid that this is simply another example of you opening your big mouth to let the 5H!T dribble before researching your subject .

Other than Werther (1/G2 NZ & 1/G2 Aus prior to going to HK), what a joke horse he is as he was beaten in both of the weak SA & Qld derbies.

So Gladys just who are or were these NZ or Australian horses racing in HK that would have troubled WINX or any other horses for that matter in 2000m WFA races like the Hong Kong Gold Cup, QE II Cup or the Hong Kong Cup?

Surely one would think that if any of them actually existed at least one or two of them other than the joke horse Werther would have won a couple of these races since 2015 and onwards when WINX was still racing.

Come on Gladys, just who are these NZ or Aus 2000m WFA stars sold to Hong Kong that would have given WINX a toweling or at least a run for her money?

Names please Gladys.

Put up or shut up DOPEY!

Go back to the cult for a while Gary and they will tell what to say in places like this.

And if you come back and tell me I am not sticking to my claims of checking in with the forum only once a fortnight, this post came due to necessity. A bit like yet another Aussie cricket captain needing to apologise due to indiscretions and calling an urgent press conference to do the apologising. 

Heres another quality horse that WINX beat.

At her first start as a 3yo she flogged Earthquake, who had won the previous years Blue Diamond Stakes prior to finishing 2nd in the Golden Slipper when beaten by Mossfun.

Note -  Earthquake had beaten Mossfun just prior to the running of the Slipper.

"Oh the humanity!" encapsulates the tragedy of your four straight years of unthinkable pain.

You cant help the way you are, any more than you can help the way you are..

Idjut!

I think the word you were looking for is "humility" Gaz.

I think your ignorance of the English language is only matched by your total stupidity in relation to horse racing.

Next time you are trying to be hilariously funny, why don't you go down to the local infants school and get one of the kids to proofread your post for you.

I was in awe of every "impossible" win. You laid her, hated her and trashed her, whilst enduring four years of unrelenting pain. Oh, the humanity! 

I can see Gary in a religious cult, Khap. There he is, kneeling in front of the Winx altar with a Winx flag in each hand and a 
Winx cap on his bone head, chanting the names of the stablemates that she beat. In front of him is a non stop video of her beating Invictus Prince and then an overlay of her thrilling win over Sons of John.

After a few minutes of adulation and chanting Gary is led away sobbing only to return a few minutes later to start the whole process over again.

Well said Gladys. These raving Winx maniacs, The King and Gary make me ill with their adulation. Their beliefs remind me of someone being brainwashed from years in a religious cult. Their posts are nonsense and not good reading that's why I only visit the forum about once a fortnight and read only a couple of post's each time I visit.

Well said

Gladys,

Re your: "Tell me, how many Group Ones did Chautauqua win over 1500 metres."

Answer none but listen here dopey there was only one G1race over 1500m per year where geldings were eligible to run when Chautauqua was racing.

He had one start over 1500m for one third placing to the great WINX and that was on a HEAVY track.

Chautauqua did not handle heavy tracks well, he had four career starts on heavy tracks for only one win.

Compare this to his record of wins on surfaces other than HEAVY.

In any case I fail to see your point in attempting to denigrate Chautauqua for failing to win over his one and only start at 1500m when one of your all time idols Better loosen Up also failed to win over 1500m in two attempts.

Once 2nd in a 3yo hcp and the other a miserable 4th in a George Ryder.

Lets take a look at some of your other idols.

The following horses also failed to win stakes races over the nominated distances:

Kingston Town 2500m

Vo Rogue 1900m

Manikato 2000m (2 attempts)

Dulcify 1800m

Takeover Target beaten in all G1 & G2 starts over 1400m

Todman approx. 1700m (Hill Stakes)

Tulloch 13 furlongs

Bernborough 12 furlongs

Oh and lets not forget your pinup girl Ethereal no wins over 2000m or 1200m for that matter.

My point here is of course that I am sure that most thinking people would not think any less of the relative champions listed above simply because they did not win at a particular distance.

But not so for you Gladys, you are obviously NOT a thinking person as you want to bag poor old Chaut for being beaten on a HEAVY track at his only attempt at 1500m.

Conversly by my own observations I firmly believe, like Tommy Berry that Chautauqua could have been an excellent miler on good tracks had he been trained for this distance.

In my opinion he could have easily been trained to be a more SUPERIOR milier than Manikato.

 

 

As King said, Winx flogged Highland Reel, while Black Caviar took care of Moonlight Cloud.

In your own unique neanderthal style those victories count for nothing as it is makes your "beat nuthin" argument look even more stupid. 

 

Gaz, after almost a year of your yapping it has still not permeated your thick skull as to what the topic is about. Have a look at the heading you bonehead. No one has ever said she was not a good horse nor that she was not the best of her era. The topic is about the quality of her opposition.

All you have managed to do in twelve long boring months is denigrate past champions who actually competed against quality opposition. They did not need to select races where the only opposition was stable mates and assorted no hopers. It was not Winx's fault that her opposition was just duds. Good horses are retired to stud or are sold overseas. Have you worked out why NZ does not have the quality they used to have? They are sold overseas just like here. Our Group One WFA races are total rubbish. When she left the scene a couple of nine year olds who had not won for years came out and flogged her opposition such was the appalling standard she competed against.

I can't be bothered posting anymore about this topic Gaz as you are just too plain stupid to even read the topic name that you created. Go and make up a few more aliases to support your bereft intellectual views.

Yes Garyy,

Further to this Gladys' novice little pea brain will never accept that the International raider Highland Reel was also almost exactly 3 years and 8 months of age when he was flogged in the 2015 Cox Plate by WINX (finished 5.6 len 3rd)

WINX's  form was franked as as equal to or better than the best international G1 form of 2015 as approximately seven weeks later Highland Reel flogged the international superstar FLINTSHIRE in the G1 Hong Kong Vase.

FLINTSHIRE's major wins (also many G1 2nds) & 3rds)

 

2013 FR Grand Prix de Paris G1 2400m
2014 HK International Vase G1 2400m
2015 USA Sword Dancer Invitational Handicap G1 12F
2016 USA Sword Dancer Invitational Handicap G1 12F
2016 USA Bowling Green Handicap G2 12F

 

FLINTSHIRE truely was an International Superstar

His record stands at seventeen International G1 starts for 5 wins and 10 placings.

So there you have it WINX flogged Highland Reel who in turn went on to flog an International Superstar in FLINTSHIRE approximately seven weeks later.

Highland Reel's G1 stats are 7 wins, 7 placings from 22 starts.

 

Eleven horses who used Winx as a punching bag in early 2015:- Adrift, First Seal, Peggy Jean, Slightly Sweet, Onemorezeta, Mossfun, Supara, Amicus, Fenway, Thunder Lady and Ballet Suite.  If we are to believe your logic, these eleven thoroughbred juggernauts would have also destroyed horses like Hartnell, Highland Reel and the Hapless Clapper.

On 16th May, 2015 the Ordinary Winx era ended and your stupidity began. Your novice little brain will never accept that at exactly 3 years and 8 months of age her body was close to full maturity and that she had become indestructible.

Yes Gaz. You have progressed from woeful to simply appalling.

I would have posted earlier but my convulsions brought on by hysterical laughing at your nominations prevented me from responding.

"Think you fell flat on your face Gary naming those four horses"

That's great Khap. That means you were fine with the other ten. Finally, some progress!

Fax, even someone as full witted as your good self would realise that over the last twenty years the standard of horses in Australia has declined. Anything half good coming out of NZ or Australia is either sent to stud so the greedy breeders can profit or sold overseas to HK.

What is left is the rubbish that Winx got to beat. Same races against same horses as she carried the same weight whilst juiced up on Regumate.

Horses in the past had competition and raced outside their comfort zone.  She did not have any decent horses to beat as the ones that flogged her retired leaving the duds for her to beat.

Happy New Year Gaz. 

 

Think you fell flat on your face Gary naming those four horses. Wish I could find an "oops" button for that post.

King, I wish I could click a LIKE button for your previous post! That was funny! :-)

 

Gladys,

Here is a New Years Gift for you from your Jolly Old King.

What a goose you are and continue to be.

You wrote: "Look at Ethereal. Caulfield Cup and Melbourne Cup, BMW, never beaten at 2000 metres or beyond."

The FACTS are that Ethereal only ever had three starts over 2000m & was beaten in ALL THREE of them.

Thats right, NO wins (ZERO wins) out of ALL her starts over 2000m.

And in FACT she only finished in the placings ONCE (3rd) in ALL her starts over 2000m.

This should be your New Years resolution Gladys.

I Gladys, from now on should check my FACTS before resisting the urge to drivel 5H!T in my posts which only serves to continually make me look like an even bigger goose than I already am.

HAPPY NEWYEAR BOOFHEAD

THANKS FOR THE BELLY LAUGH GLAD

The average competitor in virtually any sport remains the same. Its only the cream at the very top that changes from time to time.

Anyone who suggests that the average competitor in Australian horseracing is mysteriously many lengths inferior to the average donkey that ran 20 years ago is a boofhead.

If you have any proof to the contrary (other than your childish, maniacal observations), show me. 

Show me P R O O F  that Winx's opposition was inferior to that of Sunline and Northerly. 

 

It's a shame your fellow boofhead Rex wasn't here Gaz. He could tell us what his colleague Matt Chapman and co think of your moronic claims that she raced against good opposition.

Anyway Gaz, off for a while. Happy new year to you.

Rebel Dane and Winx met in the Grp2 Warwick Stakes over 1400m in August 2016.

Rebel Dane had already won at 1400m in Grp1 company. Winx had not.

So, your argument is completely pointless.

 

Rebel Dane? That horse had less than 20% strike rate and never won over more ground than 1400m.

It's a bit like beating Makybe Diva in a 900 metre barrier trial and claiming to be better than one of greatest stayers.

Look at Ethereal. Caulfield Cup and Melbourne Cup, BMW, never beaten at 2000 metres or beyond. That is what a good horse does, not beat up stable mates and duds over the same distances, same weights, same races ad nauseum.

Give us those horses Gaz.

Of course there were multiple Group One winners to compete against Gaz. We have over 70 Group One races a year with most just being rubbish versus rubbish. The fact that an ordinary horse can win one of these Mickey Mouse races  that have been staged for the breeding industry does not mean there is any quality involved,

It seems you have gone from total reticence to total blathering with this diatribe of third taters.

Which of the aforementioned parade of no hopers that she beat do you say justified you rating her the best in the world  and our greatest horse in history.

Try and keep calm in your reply and post under your name, not that moronic alias.

Thanks for joining in King. Wish Rex was here to see out the year.

Here's some more "hack" MULTIPLE Grp1 winners that were savaged by Winx.

Kermadec, Rebel Dane, Gailo Chop, Yankee Rose

Gee Gaz, you are getting yourself into a terrible lather there old mate.

Why don't you have a little rest, look at some old videos of Winx beating Sons of John and Invictus Prince and then come back when you feel well enough to post under your correct name.

There's a good lad. Nice little resties.

 

Gladys, re your silly:

"These international raiders. Benbatl was a Group 3 winner in U.K."

What is your point here Nong?

All you have done is re - reinforce the strength of GB group racing.

Read em & weep dopey.

Sir Dragonet had only won 1/G3 in GB prior to flogging our 2020 Cox Plate hopefuls.

Adelaide won the 2014 Cox Plate after having only won the G1 Secretariat Stakes which you are on record as having treated with disdain in regard to its quality (re Highland Reel) and the only other Group race that it had won prior taking out our G1 Cox Plate was 1/G3 race in GB.

Further to this if we go back a little in history we find another international raider who won the Cox Plate in 1989.

Perhaps you can tell us all about what Almaraad did to your idol Blow Rogue in the 1989 Cox Plate.

I dare say that you do not have the guts to tell us so I suggest that all who are interested should take a look at the youtube of the 1989 Cox Plate and see how our supposed great Blo Rogue was absolutely annihilated by a multiple G2 winner from Ire.

If that doesnt establish the absolute strength and quality of the overseas raiders and their racing & the subsequent quality implications for WINX then I dont know what will.

But then again it may just be all one big coincidence that overseas raiders took out the 2014, 2019 & 2020 Cox Plates when WINX was not around but could not, try as they might beat WINX in the 2015, 2016, 2017 & 2018 Cox Plates.

 

Just read your previous post Gaz. Tell me, how many Group Ones did Chautauqua win over 1500 metres. These international raiders. Benbatl was a Group 3 winner in U.K. And she beat him by 2 lengths and the other was Folkestone who was a Group 3 winner in U.K.

Come on Gaz, don't resort to using your alias to try and get some credibility. 

Gaz, she was a good horse who raced against duds.

Gaz, you're kidding aren't you.? They won weak Group races. BHB hadn't won for years and flogged those duds that Winx beat. Egg Tart oh dear. Is that all you have got. Do you rate her best horse in history and best in world because she beat that lot.

Gaz. Time to check your meds I think.

Gary,

You can add the following multiple G1 winners beaten by WINX to your alphabetical list which by the way thus far is only up to the letter H.

Chautauqua 5/G1s,   Harlem (like Vo Rogue won 2/G1 Aus Cups), Fawkner 3/G1s (also beaten narrowly in a number of other G1s)

Heres some other FACTS which undeniably put into context the CHAMPION qualities of WINX.

An international raider won the 2014 Cox Plate then WINX repelled these internation raiders in winning four Cox Plate in a row in 2015, 2016, 2017 & 2018.

Following her retirement the next two Cox Plates were then once again won by International raiders in 2019 & 2020.

The following horses won multiple Cox Plates but none could match WINX's record of 4 succesive Cox Plates.

So You think 2,  Fields of Omagh 2,  Kingston Town 3,  Tobin Bronze 2,  Hydrogen 2,  Flight 2,

Tranquil Star 2,  Beau Vite 2,  Young Idea 2,  Chatham 2,  Phar Lap 2.

This is elite company to be included in let alone the FACT that in most cases WINX won "twice as many" Cox Plates as the individuals in this group of undeniable superstars of their day.

Further to this, again putting her absolute CHAMPION qualities into context take a look at "some" of the legends that only won one Cox Plate.

Makybe Diva,  Saintly,  Octagonal,  Super Impose,  Better Loosen Up, Rubiton, Bone Crusher,  Red Anchor,  Strawberry Road,  Dulcify,  Surround,  Taj Rossi,  Gunsynd,  Tauto,  Daryl's Joy,  Aquanita,  Tulloch,  Rising Fast,  Delta,  Carbon Copy,  Ajax,  Amounis,  Heroic,  Manfred

Further to this what about the list of very good horses that competed in Cox Plates but could not manage to win even one Cox Plate?

Vo Rogue & Lonhro are two who immediately come to mind.

On this basis its obvious to all except Gladys that WINX would have blown both Vo Rogue & Lonhro away in a Cox Plate.

The facts support this opinion that WINX would run first, daylight second, Vo Rogue running out of puff at the 200m & fading badly to finish a miserable 4th with Lonhro once again leaving his run way too late and running past Blow Rogue to finish a distant 3rd behind daylight.

Here's a few more "hack" MULTIPLE Grp1 winners that she smashed. They all had great reputations until the day they met their nemesis.

Black Heart Bart, Lucia Valentina, Le Romain, Egg Tart. 

Now Gaz you are just getting side tracked and confused again. One minute you are telling us all that racing and winning overseas means nothing and now you are using it to bolster Winx's stocks by claiming she beat international champions.

You need to have a long think Gaz. It is not winning overseas that counts but who you beat that matters. It's a bit like winning famous races in Australia. If you win races that are great in name only but only comprised of stablemates and duds, then it counts for what?

Races like the Stradbroke and Doomben 10,000 used to be great races, look at them now. The Doncaster and Epsom have been a disappointment in recent years. Fair dinkum, Sons of John nearly won. Look at the donkeys Winx beat in those last three Cox Plates, just stablemates, hacks that hadn't won at WFA, Group One or the distance.

Now back on track Gaz. Name those good ones she beat. You have thirty three races to ponder, who were they?

Good horse, best of her era, beat nuthin'!

Three of those "Handicappers and hacks" raced overseas; two with considerable success.

You have NFI.

Freemason and Dandy Andy were indeed hacks - and we all know who they beat. 

 

Great stuff Gaz. These revelations will set you free. Keep on spitting out those names and when you get to the ones she beat that made her not only the best in the world but our greatest horse ever, let me know. So far, with the exception of one, you have only given us the names of handicappers and hacks but I am sure you are saving up the good ones for later.

Come on Gaz. Let it rip.

You obviously don't know your ABC.

A  Avillius B  Benbatl C  Criterion

H for Humidor, Happy Clapper, Hartnell, Highland Reel. 

Come on Gaz, there's a good chap. Tell us the names, you are nearly there.

After you have found your multiple G1 winners starting with H, you can then begin looking for multiple G1 winners starting with A, B, C.

No Gaz, I still love watching good horses compete.

What I don't like are the moronic racing media sobbing and gushing over a horse that beat nothing and then demanding that we all pronounce her as the best in the world and our greatest horse ever.

Out of the moronic media I have you and Bruce level pegging.

Now Gaz, you are almost there. Give us a few names.

 "When you are finally able to say their names you will probably feel so relieved you will rush to tell us all the good horses they beat in their multiple Group One wins"

And that is why it is pointless. 

The last time you got excited about a horse was nearly 20 years ago. How tragic for you.

 

Come on Gaz, don't give up now, after months of encouragement you are almost there. 

We have a letter, that's a good start. Now come on, tell us their names, you can do it.

Multiple Group One winners. That sounds impressive. When you are finally able to say their names you will probably feel so relieved you will rush to tell us all the good horses they beat in their multiple Group One wins. That will be nice won't it. I think one of these horses might have been so good they even beat the likes of Sons Of John and the mighty Invictus Prince.

Come on Gaz, you can do it.

Winx beat heaps of multiple Grp1 winners many of which started with the letter H.

What I do for a living has nothing to do with your inability to answer a simple question Gaz.

At least I made my way in the world on my own ability without having to name drop and ride coat tails.

Now Gaz, out of those 33 races, give us a few names.

Happy New Year Gaz.

Its amazing how many lawyers turn to stand up.

Gee Gaz. I am not interested in all those diversions. I just want you to either name the horses or concede she beat duds.

What is hard to understand about that. You have nothing, so you give us all this spin.

Who were they Gaz. One more time to take out 2020. Good horse, best of her era. Beat nuthin"!

Happy New Year Gaz.

Gladys, there's some invaluable advice in the link below. Good luck..

https://www.standup.com.au/wanna-be-stand-comedian-0

A rising four year old makes it three Gaz. First Seal beat her home five out of six times Gaz. 

Who did she beat in those thirty three races Gaz. Forget HR for one moment. They were just duds and you know it.

Give us a few names, not spin, diversion and insults, some names Gaz.

Highland Reel was a rising 4 year old whose mission was to pillage and plunder everywhere it went.

But on this occasion the plan did not work and you've made so many excuses for it being beaten - a 3 year old, who was half way around the world, who hadn't made a name for itself, and had suffered shocking interference in the Cox. Its one bullsh!t excuse after the next, but I have to admit, it is hilarious! 

Are they the only two you have got Gaz? First Seal finished in front of her five out of the six times. Highland Reel was a three year old, half way around the World on his way to Hong Kong.  She won 33 in a row didn't she? Who were the others?

Happy Xmas Gaz. 

She beat Highland Reel and First Seal by streets.

Does your inability to celebrate rising champions extend to other sports, or are you just a horseracing dinosaur?  

Who knows Gaz. One thing I do know is that any half decent horse, including her, would have flogged those duds that Winx beat.

If I am wrong, tell me the names of the good ones.

Happy Xmas Gaz.

"I guess he (Waller) couldn't believe his luck when First Seal and then a couple of the others retired"

In other words Gladys, First Seal would have won 5 Cox Plates and won 40 consecutive races.

Idjut.

Yes Gaz. For the life of me I never thought that if he had a good one he would have restricted her to just the same races, same distances, same weights and same hopeless stablemates as opposition for her whole career. I guess he couldn't believe his luck when First Seal and then a couple of the others retired. All he had left to compete against were duds and the knowledge that anything half good from overseas had no intention of coming down here for Mickey Mouse Group Ones.

See you Flapper. It's Xmas and you are a bore. Happy Xmas to you and everyone else in your ward.

 

You tipped that Waller would run her in a career ending Melbourne Cup!

In other words you can't think of any so you branch off and talk about other horses.

It isn't hard to see how you came up with Humidor for the Melbourne Cup.

Happy Xmas Gaz.

She was not at her prime and beat Highland Reel  by 6 lengths. It wasn't enough for you. Why would I bother to add to that?

Black Caviar broke down in running and beat Moonlight Cloud  - and it wasn't enough for you. Why bother? 

These two horses subsequently won heaps of G1s or equivalents.

The discussion is over, except in your head. The thread remains relevant to continue exposing your stupid comments.

Just how retarded are you Gaz?

The heading of the thread is "What did Winx Beat" not  "Who does Gary think she would have beaten"

Have you got any names? Admit defeat and go have a sob watching her beat Invictus Prince and the other duds.

Northerly and Sunline would have eaten her dust.

But Gaz, That didn't happen and I never said anything like that, that is just more speculation by you. You create a fictitious scenario and then attribute that fictitious scenario to me via your alias.

Back to the topic of the thread. Name the horses Gaz or shut up and concede you are a loud mouthed dill.

Even if FRANKEL had come out here & been beaten by WINX she (Gladys) would say: "Big deal, FRANKEL like WINX beat nuthin and only ever raced in his own country prior to being beaten by WINX'.

Well put King! 

 

Give up Gary, its highly obvious that you are attempting to reason with a dope.

There is an old saying that goes something like this:

Talk sense to a fool & they will call you a fool.

Your wasting your time with Gladys.

Even if FRANKEL had come out here & been beaten by WINX she would say:

Big deal, FRANKEL like WINX beat nuthin and only ever raced in his own country prior to being beaten by WINX.

Thats it in a nutshell Gazza, this is the type of completely [email protected] reasoning that you are dealing with.

Merry XMAS

 

And as the sun sets slowly in the west, it is still many miles above poor old Gaz's credibility.

One would need a subterranean oil drill of many miles in length to even detect it on seismic scanning, it is buried that low.

Happy Xmas all. 

Now Gaz, I realise you are asking all these questions to avoid the humiliating prospect of having to concede that you cannot name one decent horse that Winx ever beat. Because it is Xmas and because I have made you look such a dill over this topic I will give you a little Xmas treat and give your stupid question a broad answer.

When laying horses one does not have to expect a particular horse to beat the horse being layed. Look at the maths, if you are laying horses in a market of 110-115% knowing that market will be 101% at the off, even a simpleton cannot lose. Have a common takeout figure and when you lay the favourite, lay several others into the stake you are holding. This not only reduces the liability into the favourite but provides a bonus should the others fail to salute as well.  It is easy to see which way the market will move. Have a look on the right hand side and see how much has been staked in the race. Divide this sum by the amount staked on the respective horse and note the result. Now have a look at what price the horse is trading at.

One of the errors I made early in the piece was underestimating just how poor her opposition was. Initially I would just lay her one out but soon realised that even with betting back when the market tightened, that there was little if any profit. As her winning streak extended I would still lay her into the market if I could get set at about 115% in early trading. Because she was so short initially she would always ease and there was the chance to green up.

As her career moved on, it was just a matter of history that she was running in limited races against the same hopeless opposition over the same range of distances. Instead of laying her, I would then lay the talked up duds that the boofheads in the racing media would spruik in their attempt to give her races some credibility. It all came to a sad end when she retired and a couple of nine year olds who had not won for years came out and belted the hapless, hopeless lot she had been beating over several seasons.

In closing Gaz, I didn't lose much and didn't win much in the times I played in her races. I found it sad that our racing had fallen to this appalling level when a good horse could just come out against the same no hopers, in the same races, over the same distances, flog these no hopers and then have to listen to all the sobbing adulation from racing media who had no other horse  to write about. Fair dinkum, interviewing jockey's children, arriving in an open car up the straight and people like yourself and Bruce. 

No Gaz. No more diversions with stupid questions, trawling up old posts or denigrating past champions. I don't need your critical analysis on how I lay horses or anything else. All I want is one thing. Can you name any decent wfa horses that she beat. Horses that would have been competitive in any era. 

Come on Gaz, we are all waiting.

 

So, who did you expect would beat her?

Well Flapper, I lay horses that are well into the red without a second thought. It is a bit like having a couple of bucks each way on a 66/1 shot. Little risk, good reward.

The reason why I thought she would go to the Melbourne Cup or at least a Caulfield Cup was due to there being no, and I mean no, weight for age horses about. Who in their wildest dreams would have thought that her career had been mapped out to beat no hopers, duds and mostly all from the same stable. Strewth, blind Freddy knew Hartnell and Jameka were just handicappers who struck it lucky having no wfa horses. Same for Happy Clapper. How lucky were they to come up against the no hopers they beat.

Anyway Flapper ( I like that name for you Gaz), give us the names of the good ones she beat.

I doubt there will be a meaningful reply, just more stupid diversions and trawling of posts years ago. Anyway, Flapper, have a great Christmas. What is Santa bringing you? Pictures of Invictus Prince, Red Excitement or perhaps Humidor winning the Melbourne Cup!

Take a break, Flapper. You are floundering.

You haven't addressed my post..

Any movement on the names of those good horses that Winx beat Gaz?

Whilst your trolling predicted or speculative occurrences don't let me take all the credit. How about a rerun of Humidor's chances in the Melbourne Cup that your big yap forecast. 

Where are the names flapper?

Remember this? "I have already laid Winx in the (2016) Cox Plate and intend to lay her even more." So, who were you expecting to beat her?

In the Spring of 2016, JAMEKA thrashed a G3 field by nearly 4 lengths and then HARTNELL thrashed Jameka by 3 lengths in the G1 Turnbull. Jameka then won the G1 Caulfield Cup by 3 lengths, which justified hatrick winning Hartnell's opening quote in the Cox Plate of $3.80. 

Who would have expected Winx to come out and annihilate Hartnell by 8 lengths? Nobody. And certainly not you! Apart from Hartnell, who did you expect to beat Winx? You're an astute judge (cough), name them and maybe we'll include them amongst the best Winx has beaten.

"(Winx) is.. to be entered in the (2016) Melbourne Cup..That will be her mission. Just..marvel at my insight." As much as I marvel at your insight Gladys, it looks like you got that dreadfully wrong too! 

The clerk of the course's horse had more talent than the duds she beat.

Name the good ones if I am incorrect.

What "might" have happened?" You laid them heaps of times, didn't you. You couldn't grasp the fact that the supersonic mares had no vulnerabilities. 

Still no names, just your stupid baseless views on what might have happened according to your assessment. 

Remind me of your Humidor assessment.

Your horses would have zero chance against the supersonics. They would have been the Happy Clappers and Hay List equivalents. No disrespect.

Be thankful, very thankful they didn't meet her. 

Yes I did. I am bored with your circular arguments and responses Gaz. It has always been a simple question put to you which you have been unable to answer. Instead you evade the question and resort to insults deriding previous good horses. 

Happy Xmas Gaz.

 

Did you not read my previoius response?

Come on Gaz. Give us the names. Leave MC out of it. Tell us the good ones Winx beat. I have been asking this simple question for years so come on, name them.

You can't, can you. There are none. Just duds, no hopers, stablemates, just nothing.

You've already dismissed Highland Reel and Moonlight Cloud as two of the best beaten by the Supersonic mares, so what is the point?

Name the good horses Winx beat - I know you can't.

Totally correct little critter -I know I am.

I spruiked Humidor for the MC - you know I didn't.

The King and I are the same.- you know we're not. 

Mischievous little critter, aren't you ? :-)

 

I am sure no racing identity would disagree with a genius like you Gaz.

I imagine they are all still in awe of you after you applied all your knowledge and ratings and declared Humidor in the Melbourne Cup a couple of years ago.

No one in their right mind would challenge a person who possesses that wisdom.

Re my:

Plenty of horses, Frankel included never raced outside their own country but are still thought to be "CHAMPIONS of their time.

Other obvious examples are Secretariat, Seattle Slew, Spectacular Bid etc...."

CORRECTION, I later remembered that Secretariat had his final race in CANADA therefore did not do all his racing in the USA.

Sorry about that!

Oh now I am starting to see the wisdom of your logic Gladys.

So what you are saying is that if WINX had been beaten by good horses such as Chautauqua, Criterion, Highland Reel or even Benbatl instead of her beating them, then & only then in your mind  could she be classified as a CHAMPION.

Plenty of horses, Frankel included never raced outside their own country but are still thought to be CHAMPIONS of their time.

Other obvious examples are Secretariat, Seattle Slew, Spectacular Bid etc....

Surely you are not stupid enough to declare that Secretariat was not a CHAMPION simply because he did not race outside the USA and or was beaten by an ordinary horse called ONION are you?

Obviuosly its hard to determine who is a better horse than the other unless they physically race against each other.

Heres a question for you Gladys:

Who was the best horse out of Kingston Town 1976 & Spectacular Bid 1976?

Yeah, Shayne Dye, lets all take notice of what that dopey little Kiwi has to say.

One very confused individual.

Correct me if I am wrong here but isn't he the one who thought he was riding Tulloch in the 1992 Caulfield Cup?

As usual, no rebuttal. Find another quote. There's sure to be a high profile racing identity somewhere, that thinks Winx was a dud. 

Its not Xmas yet, Gladys. 

 

It's Christmas Gaz, so you can have the last word. You are absolutely correct in everything you say. You know everything. You are without peer in the history of racing knowledge. She was the greatest horse ever in the history of the world. all the good horses hid from her. They hid so well no one has ever found them. she flogged champions week in and week out.

Happy Xmas Gaz. 

"Frankel was in a class of his own".  In that case, had Frankel met Northerly, Sunline, Vo Rogue. Might and Power, he would have smashed them, so why bring it up and put yourself in even more poo?

"(Shane Dye) didn't think she would have won so many races in the era of Kingston Town"  Absolutely Gladys, when Dye said "The one thing I do know is that she wouldn't have this unbeaten run." he could indeed be saying that she may have lost a race or two.

Gee Gaz what is with all the red highlighting. Are things that desperate?

The crux of what he said in several different interviews was that the quality of horses racing in Australia during her era was poor. He went on to say that he didn't think she would have won so many races in the era of Kingston Town (he was a child during that era) he also said that she was only racing against Australian horses and that Frankel was in a class of his own.

You can highlight, insult, quote, do anything you like but there is one thing you can't do and that is supply names.

Happy Xmas Gaz. 

"He (Shane Dye) didn't rate her anywhere near Frankel or the overseas horses did he"

Oh dear. The Kingston Town comparison has become irrelevant and we have now turned to Frankel!

Nice try Gaz. He didn't rate her anywhere near Frankel or the overseas horses did he.  Give us all a Christmas present and tell us the names of the good ones she beat. I have asked this question for a few years now and never get an answer, just abuse and insults.

If she is so good, who did she beat to establish that title. 

He rates her alongside Kingston Town. You rate her best of a "nuthin" era. Big difference. Thanks for providing yet another jockey/trainer's perspective of her brilliance. 

HK offered just under half a million for a South Australian colt that had won its only two  starts. Two years later that horse can't get out of its own way. Very "astute" are these HK judges.

Dye is not agreeing with you and does not prove your point. You came up with nothing in four years of trolling about the subject, whereas he believes that the MALE category of the industry in Australia is in decline.

Waterhouse, Hayes, McKee, Dye and countless others rate her as a champion and the best they've ever seen. If they read some of your bullsh!t comments, they would rate you as an anachronistic nicompoop.

That is hilarious how you manage to just skim over his comments about the quality of her opposition and move on to his comments about Kingston Town Gaz. Has not my whole point from the start been about the fact she beat nothing, yet you just dismiss his particular point as an aside.

Another little correction Gaz. It was not the case that I said First Seal and Fenway would have towelled her, in case you skimmed over that as well in your haste to avoid the truth, they did, First Seal finished in front of her five out of six times.

Have a happy Xmas Gaz. See you in New Year.

Aside from being critical of the quality of racing (Dye must have forgotten about First Seal & Fenway, both of which you claim would have towelled Winx), Dye says "I love watching Winx and I think she's a champion". "I am not putting Winx down in any way. But I would have loved to have seen her in the Kingston Town era. I don't know what would have happened. It would have been interesting," he said.

He rates her alongside the King, and I don't disagree. Anything else you want to bring up? 

Hey Gaz. I know you love looking for quotes from trainers and jockeys and presenting them like you have just had them delivered to you on Mt Sinai.

Do a little more research and have a look at what one R.S. Dye has to say about her competition and how she would have fared against the horses in his era.

If you can't find it Sherlock give me a hoy and I will steer you in the right direction.

Dont read it too early in the day you will choke on your cornies!

Happy Xmas Gaz

Say something half intelligent and I'll respond.

Post under as many aliases as you like Gaz. Rubbish as many past champions as you like Gaz.

You just can't come up with a name of any horse she beat that was any good.

Good horse, best of her era, beat nuthin'.

Hi Gary,

Re your: 

"If it's accepted that Sunline and Lonhro were milers, thats proof of how weak the staying opposition was."

I think the following quote from her jockey Childs confirms just about every thing you said:

"There was definitely a sense of unfinished business," adds Childs. "Sunline disappointed as hot favourite for the Hong Kong Cup in 1999, running her worst race ever, but with hindsight she only truly stayed 2,000m on tight tracks with short straights like Moonee Valley."

Futher to this it is a FACT that Lonhro, like Vo Rogue was a dud when it came to attempting to win the Cox Plate, 6th in 02 as a 4yo & 3rd in 03 as a 5yo.

You don't need a comeback. Your comment speaks for itself. 

Nice try Gaz. Even a total moron would have been able to interpret what I said related to 10 wins if the competition was as low as what she faced in the other 4.

Spin, diversion, half quotes and insults. All because you have no comeback.

Sunline and Northerly earned the tag of champions of their era principlly because they were good enough to win TWO Cox Plates.

"She could win 10 Cox Plates Gaz and it would not prove a thing" gives you the distinction of the most idiotic statement in any racing forum, ever.

No Gaz, you have that honour.

Now imagine this Gaz. Just say Australia was to have held the Olympics this year and because of the covid no one turned up except a few minor nations who had pretty poor swimmers. There was no real need for heats as there were only about seven competitors in each swimming event. Suppose one of our swimmers was pretty good but the rest were team mates who would not have been expected to make the finals had it been a usual Olympics with all nations competing. Anyway, this pretty good swimmer wins eight gold medals and is then hailed by the Australian swimming media as the best in the world and the greatest swimmer in the history of Australia. Can you see any similarities or is that too intellectually deep for your intellect?

Now go back to what you paraphrased from Patrick Payne. If the sole criteria was the number of times you won an event then what he said is correct. Whoever wins the Cox Plate the most times is the best, irrespective of any other criteria. So if for five consecutive years only a handful of horses contested the race, for whatever reason, and you owned the horse that won each of those times, you had the best horse in history. Do you see any issue with this hypothesis Gaz? Say the only criteria was whoever ran the fastest time was the best in history. That would mean Ike's Dream as the greatest miler Randwick had ever seen and the greatest in history at that course.

Now Gaz, I know this logic makes your head spin and having your opinion not agreed with is tantamount to heresy,but you have to face facts. The facts are, good horse, best of her appalling era, beat nuthin in any of those last 33 wins.

Happy Xmas Gaz. Maybe Santa might bring you a book about real racehorses.

"She could win 10 Cox Plates Gaz and it would not prove a thing" 

That will go down as the most thick-witted statement in the history of the forum.

You are becoming obsessed with trying to justify your opinion Gaz.

She could win 10 Cox Plates Gaz and it would not prove a thing if all she beat each time were duds, no hopers and stablemates, which sadly for your position, is all she ever did. If I am wrong name the good horses she ever best.

I hope you have a nice Xmas Gaz and you get to take a break from digging up old posts and comments and misreading things into them.

But wait there's more. Edited article from Herald Sun October 22, 2017

"Patrick Payne.. was asked to talk about Winx. He rode Northerly to victory in 2002.. And that is the sticking point for Payne — he knows Winx is superior to Northerly.. If (Winx) wins that third Cox Plate, (its also) game over for Sunline. “If she wins the third Cox Plate, she.. is better than (everything) before her, ­including Sunline."

Source: https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/superracing/winxs-date-with-destiny-to-add-another-plate-to-the-stack/news-story/57b7f8267ec2c5688d3fff85868265f2

Hmm, what do I do Gladys?  Believe your bullsh!t or accept the word of jockeys, trainers and owners of former champs?

 

 

Yes Gaz, they got beaten by lesser lights at times. They also beat good horses at other times. The problem you have with your adulation of Winx is that all she ever did from her three year old days onwards was race no hopers. There was no competition. Just stablemates and other no hopers for 33 consecutive races. It was just like racing against trees.

Happy Xmas. Go and bore someone else.

Gladys,

You wrote: "So far that makes it Manikato, Luskin star, Sunline and Northerly you have rubbished .Who will be next?"

I can not speak for Gary but I for one have always presented the facts about your supposed past champions.

The trouble with people like you is that often the TRUTH hurts.

Feel free to question or dispute any of the FACTS that I have presented about your idols.

In this same vein heres another couple of FACTS for you to dwell on over Xmas.

Yes WINX did get beaten as a 2yo & 3yo as an emerging CHAMPION however that was it she then remained unbeaten for the rest of her career starting as a 4yo.

Vo on the other hand was beaten time and time again during the rest of his career.

Now lets compare your idol Vo Rogue's record as a 2yo & 3yo as a supposed emerging champion.

Here is a short list of some of the horses that beat him as a 2yo & 3yo:

Prince Calling, Blazonry, Appealed, Spirit of Bengal, Charson, Allison Michelle, Myamin, Nazali, Ben Barnie & Tidal Light.

You also said: "Great insight there Gaz. Vo Rogue only ever beat horses like Better Loosen Up, Our Poetic Prince, Bonecrusher and Super Implse."

I think that you will find that these horses took turns in beating each other.

Lets take for example the fact that you seem to place great creedence on the fact that Vo Rogue beat Better Loosen Up.

While this is true, yes Vo Rogue did beat Better Loosen Up once but lets take a look at the overall score betwen these two great combatants:

1990 Blamey Stakes BLU 1st,  Vo 3rd

1990 Aus Cup BLU 3rd,  Vo 1st

1990 Segenhoe Stakes BLU 1st,  Vo 7th

1991 Blamey Stakes BLU 1st,  Vo 2nd

1991 Aus Cup BLU 1st,  Vo 2nd

Poor Gaz. All this abuse and bile about past champions just because you were found out when asked to name the good horses she beat. 

Anyhow, it is too boring waiting for an answer. Hope you have a happy Xmas Gaz. Time to have a spell.

 

"No one can compare horses or sport people of different eras except one person.  The great Gaz"

Are you serious?!! You're the one that started it and you've been doing it for this entire thread!

Northerly, good horse, best of his era, beat nuthin'

You are a supersized hypocrite!

 

 

 

No one can compare horses or sport people of different eras except one person.  The great Gaz. Size 15 mouth and a size 1 hat.

"Northerly knew how to win races and how to hold out or grind down opposition. You don't know how he would have reacted (to Winx's acceleration"

Northerly could OUTGRIND anything, but he could never OUTPING Winx. There's a big difference.

Even performance enhancing drugs wouldn't help. Drugs only help a horse to sustain its best speed, not to race beyond it. Winx ran some 32 second sectionals, whereas Northerly's standard was 35 or 36 secs. Chalk and Cheese mate. McKee said it best in relation to Sunline "I’m just happy that Sunline raced in a different era and we didn’t have to take on Winx".

 

Great insight there Gaz. Vo Rogue only ever beat horses like Better Loosen Up, Our Poetic Prince, Bonecrusher and Super Implse. Those duds hardly hold a candle to Invictus Prince, Red Excitement, Libran and Foxplay do they.

So far that makes it Manikato, Luskin star, Sunline and Northerly you have rubbished .Who will be next?  Perhaps you can change tack and start on dawn Fraser and Don Bradman.

This thread has really given the posters a great insight into you, hasn't it Gaz. 

Who are you going to be today Gaz. It looks like you aren't too sure.

Why not use different names on alternate days instead of both on the same day. Perhaps you look in the mirror whilst posting your drivel.

Gladys you say: "Vo Rogue would have run her into the ground."

I say Vo Rogue would have run himself into the ground.

Vo Rogue was a hopeless Cox Plate horse who was beaten in the 87 & 89 Cox Plate & was scratched from the 88 Cox Plate for fear of being beaten under the conditions (champions win in all conditions)

Vo Rogue only won 6/G1s in total.

He only won two G1s over 2000m (ie. lowly 2nd string G1 Aus Cups) and was beaten in another by Dandy Andy who only ever won one G1 over 2000m in his entitre racing career.

What hope would a Cox Plate dud have of running a 4 Cox Plate winning specialist into the ground.

Its obvious that WINX would do a Rubiton or Dandy Andy on him.

What a pathetic effort from Vo Rogue in the Aus Cup when being run down by a one time, first time  G1 2000m winnning horse (this was the only G1 race he ever won over 2000m)

Sorry Gladys, winning two G1 Aus Cups (his only G1 2000m wins) and being beaten in another by a once only G1 winning 2000m horse does not come close to the esteem of WINX's four attempts at the Cox Plate for four wins.Yeah thats right WINX four Cox Plate attempts for four wins.

Compare that to Vo Rogue the Cox Plate dud, two attempts for NO wins.

The reality is that as good a horse that Vo Rogue was he was, as proven by his record not such a great G1 2000m horse.

Yeah he won two Aus Cups out of three attempts but the reality is he really wasnt a G1 2000m horse and the Aus Cup is very much the poor relation to the Cox Plate.

The Aus Cup lacks the esteem of the Cox Plate.

Oh and did I mention that Vo Rogue was a dud Cox Plate horse, had his chance on more than one occasion but blew it each and every time.

1800m was more his go, not really a G1 2000m horse at all hence his inability to win a Cox Plate.

 

 

"you have zero credibilty left"

C'mon Gladys, you've been discredited so many times, I'd love you to get one back at me. Have a dip!

Oh Gaz, you are the Howard Carter of the forum with your excavation of old posts and comments in your futile attempt to divert attention from the fact she just beat no hopers, duds and stablemates.

Wouldn't it be grand if you could engage a rapier wit and rattle off a string of names to put us naysayers in our place. 

Alas, all you have is Red Excitement, Invictus Prince and more hopeless aged stayers from the same stable than you could poke a stick at.

Give up even though you have zero credibility left.

“I enjoyed her wins but found them boring in the end

What a load of rot Gladys! Here’s your cynical comments about her 2016 Cox Plate prospects following her 10th consecutive win!

 26/08/2016 11:41:07 PM

"I have already laid Winx in the Cox Plate and intend to lay her even more. The race is two months away and people are taking that price. Just watch what Mr Waller does. This horse, if sound, is going to be entered in the Melbourne Cup, via the Cox Plate. That will be her mission. Just watch and marvel at my insight."

12/09/2016 10:09:42 PM

"I think we should wait and see what she does as a five year old and a six year old before we all get into too much of a lather. All good horses have a brilliant season, champions have multiple brilliant seasons. The price she is presently being quoted in the Cox Plate is ridiculous. Just lay her."

 

 

"It is a shame that Winx was handled the way she was"

Its one thing to be ignorant, its another to be proud of it. The handling of Kepitis & Co, Waller and Bowman was sheer magnificence. In anyone else's hands, her future is anyone's guess and nowhere near as special. She had the right people in the right place at the right time. A stupid comment Gladys, even by your standards.

"Whoosh, what was that"? 

Well Gaz, I would say it was your credibility sinking even lower than the Mariana Trench.

I think you would need one of those robot submarines that they used to find the Titantic to locate it.

"You don't know how he (Northerly) would have reacted"

Whoosh!  "What was that?" 

Always a recipe for disaster when you presume what others may be thinking Gaz. Although this is somewhat tedious I will try to explain it to you in terms that even a simpleton such as yourself may grasp.

You have to separate fact from opinion or wishful thinking. The fact is that Winx was better on the day than all the other horses in the races she won and not as good on the day in the races where she was beaten. The fact is that she raced against no hopers, duds and stablemates, most times the horses she raced against belonged in all three categories. Opinion is you thinking that because she lost to some horses is not that they were better but "she was still learning" or the planets were lined up in the wrong order. Fact is she was not good enough.

The next fact is that all the horses of the past I speak about (and you denigrate) all raced against good horses in most race. They all took on challenges whether it be distance, weight, quick back up, they did it. The next fact is that Winx did not. She took on stablemates, duds and no hopers in the same races, same weight, ad nauseum.

Winx would have beaten all these horses from the past, Winx is the greatest horse ever, Winx is the best horse in the world is just your opinion. You are entitled to think that but you have no evidence. She did not take on the best, she beat duds, no hopers and stablemates.

Another one of your baseless opinions is that she was better than our champions of yestersay. There is no evidence of this. Dog fights, sprinting like a gazelle are just part of your deluded view. Northerly knew how to win races and how to hold out or grind down opposition. You don't know how he would have reacted but more importantly, you don't know how Winx would have reacted when all of a sudden there were horses around her that could race and not the usual old guard of honour from the stable. That is called pressure Gaz,that's when you find out how good they are. Not beating up duds, but pressure. That is why, in my opinion, Vo Rogue would have run her into the ground. My opinion is based on the fact she never faced pressure from the old mates and duds, these horses of yesterday did and knew how to respond. 

It is a shame that Winx was handled the way she was and that sycophants from the media blabbed on continuously as it just divided racing fans. I enjoyed her wins but found them boring in the end. It was a bit like watching a grade cricketer take the local pub bowling attack apart. Entertaining at first but then the thought process kicks in and you wonder what would happen if another grade cricketer, who could bowl, turned up.

Anyway Gaz, you keep your baseless opinion.  Tell me, when you were formulating this opinion did you use the same criteria as you used when determining that Humidor would win the Melbourne Cup?

Gladys,

Many of Northerly's wins were dogfights, meaning it matched strides with challengers, some good, some ordinary.

For Northerly to have a dogfight with Winx means that it would have to match Winx's acceleration. It beggars belief that you would even suggest it!  Plenty of fight yes, but turn of foot, absolutely not!!

Northerly could match strides, stick its neck out, dig in, be brave in battle. But that trait enabled it to find another half length; not to sprint like a gazelle! 

I think you realised the foolishness of your suggestion and tried to deflect the discussion to Vo Rogue. Bravo.

.   

No I don't think she would have Gaz. If she ever had to contest a race against Vo Rogue she would not have run a place. He would have run her into the ground.

Good horse, best of her era, beat nuthin'

You think Winx wouldn't have got past Northerly??!!

My God!

 

Well Gaz I was going to spare you another humiliation by not answering, but as you are a glutton for punishment I will give you another lesson.

As you should be aware, there is no trainer in the history of racing that has ever denigrated another horse nor ever stated that a past champion would defeat another horse currently racing. They don't do it. Usually they will say something like "can't compare champions" or the like, but will never state what they actually think. If you look at his quote he doesn't think she was unbeatable by his horse, far from it. Also given that Sunline couldn't beat Northerly, who do you reckon he might thnk would have won the other times.

I remember years ago when the O'Sullivans were over here with Mr Tiz. Old Dave was interviewed by a racing media person with a similar intellect to your good self. When asked the horse's chances on that day, old Dave replied about how good the local horses were and how hard it would be to beat them. Mr Tiz started at long odds, came from the tail of the field and belted them, All old Dave said was "fancy that, he is a good horse". He and his tribe took heaps out of the ring.

So Gaz, when you spend all that time trawling through old quotes, think about them before you put them online only to prove to everyone what they already think about your cerebral capacity.

That childish response indicates you don't wish to dispute McKee's comments.

Yes Gaz, if you say so it has to be right.

You know everything Gaz. Isn't it funny how all those bottom kissers that used to spring to your defence every time either Khap or I disagreed with you have now remained silent.

I guess that is why you needed to invent the altar ego King.

“If say, they (Winx and Sunline) raced 10 times, we would have been happy to maybe knock Winx off once or twice.. To be honest, I’m just happy that Sunline raced in a different era and we didn’t have to take on Winx.”

Stephen McKee - Sunline's co-trainer.

racenet.com.au/news/sunline-would-have-given-winx-one-hell-of-a-race-20181026

 

 

If it's accepted that Sunline and Lonhro were milers, thats proof of how weak the staying opposition was.

One little thought in passing Gaz. You thought Sunline and Northerly faced weak opposition, what do say about Winx's opposition then?

Weak would be a gross exaggeration!

You don't have to do anything Gaz. You just need loud mouthed bores such as yourself to keep their big noting and derision in check and acknowledge that she is the best of her era full stop.

Just because some boofhead like yourself either here or overseas has an opinion does not mean it is fact. It becomes fact when you meet the best and defeat the best. Until then it is just supposition.

As to your comments about our previous champions they should just be treated with the contempt they deserve. Your so called knowledge was exposed a couple of years ago in the Melbourne Cup, wasn't it Gaz.

So where do we go? Japan, Hong Kong, France, USA, UK?  And even if she travels and wins, do the cynics suddenly declare her a champion? When Black Caviar won at Ascot, did you instantly become a fan? Hell no, you started ridiculing the opposition!

You worship the "champions" of 18+ years ago.. In your eyes, nothing will ever rival their magnificence. Sunline was a miler and Lonrho was a miler, yet they won 2000m races, because the stayers of that era were weak.

 

You become the best in the world when you compete against and defeat the best in the world.

You are not the best in the world just because some dope and his guesswork ratings says you are despite the fact that you have only competed against and defeated no hopers, duds and stablemates.

If Federer only ever played club tennis in Switzerland, Ali only ever boxed in Kentucky and Bradman only ever played for Bowral, do you think they could have been declared worlds best because some clown liked the way they won despite the competition being non existent?

 

When you came to this decision Gaz, did you use the same formula and logic that enabled you to declare Humidor as the top rated horse and likely winner of the Melbourne Cup a couple of years back?

Using those stupid ratings where horse A came third to horse B who had nearly beaten Horse C who had run behind Horse A but should have beaten horse E has resulted in you being considered one of the greatest dills in racing.

I reckon connections of this horse would like you to either shut up or go and receive some intense psychiatrict treatment asap.

Gladys,

Re your:  "we never needed to rave on and declare them the best in the world"

Not true, I distincly remember the press declaring that both Tulloch & Kingston Town at their respective peaks as very likely the BEST RACEHORSE IN THE WORLD. (IMO they may well have been)

Kingston Town who I saw race many times had an amazing record of stakes wins & in my opinion should also have won not only the VRC Derby but also a Melbourne Cup except for a poor ride by a mug lair.

The difference with WINX of course was that we didn't have to declare her the best in the world.

Why?

Because the rest of the world was declaring it for us (even the yanks agreed) which of course is pretty well unheard of.

I dont remember another time in living memory where the yanks did not declare that one of their own was the best racehorse in the world.

Yeah, and all of this from a mare that won four succesive Cox Plates, multiple course and race records & the most prizemoney by any racehorse in the world by beating nuthin.

One only has to research the press statements of the various horses at the time to validate my claims.

"we never needed to rave on and declare them the best in the world"  That's because they weren't.

"denigrating our past champions" In the modern era, horses like So You Think, Makybe Diva, Black Caviar and Winx would comfortably have their measure. Sadly, your charges would rank alongside Happy Clapper.

 

That is a pretty dopey reply even by your low standards Gaz.

Why it is so dopey is that posters like myself, although we idolised different champions of different eras, we never needed to rave on and declare them the best in the world or the best ever. Nor did we feel the need to denigrate past champions to cover up flaws in a horse that we know considered a champion.

When anyone has the temerity to question your claims as to Winx being best in world or best ever, your big flapping yap goes into overdrive and as you cannot counter the logical argument raised you resort to name calling, questioning people's ability in their occupation, using aliases and then the lowest one of all, denigrating our past champions.

I was bored of this thread years ago but just like giving you a good serve on behalf of all the silent posters who don't think our previous champions were rubbish.

Good horse, best of her era, beat nuthin'

What price would Dandy Andy be in the Arc?

Idjut

 

Gladys,

Re: "Name one Australian wfa horse she beat that would have started shorter than say 200/1 in an Arc. "

If you take a line through Highland Reel's form you will see that he won the 2015  G1 Hong Kong Vase 2400m at his next start some seven weeks after being beaten by both WINX and Criterion in the 2015 Cox Plate.

Conversly Criterion pushed on there after with a staying preparation and was "very good at the trip" when finishing 1.3 len third in the 2015 Melb Cup.

The following year Highland Reel finished second in the 2016 Arc when beaten only 1.75 len.

On this basis any fool can see that Criterion (who according to Gladys suffered massive interference in running) was still able to beat Highland Reel and run second to WINX

If Criterion been prepared for a tilt at the Arc in 2016 there is every chance based on this formline that he may well have finished in front of Highland Reeel and at the very least have started at less than 200-1.

 

Yoohoo, Gaz. Sorry to trouble you but just wondering how you are going on those names.

Those four or five regulars from the same stable that made up the seven horse fields she contested, what price would they be in an Arc, Japan Cup, Breeders, Hong Kong etc. They would be pretty short you would think Gaz.

Gladys,

You said: "Very odd post there Gaz. You want to look at Criterians strike rate at the time he raced against Winx"

Der, Thats because WINX raced against Criterion in 2015 and thats the same year that he was awarded Equal Leading Older Male on the 2015 WTR dopey.

You also wrote: "but refuse to look at Highland Reels status only relying on future successes."

Double derr to you on this one Gladys as afterall you are the one who is referencing Criterion's stats for his entire racing career not me.

And triple derrr, to you Gladys, how is this any different to me referencing Highland Reel's entire racing stats and or best performances contained within the stats for his entire racing career.

If its good enogh for you to reference a horses entire racing career then equally it should be good enough for me to do likewise.

You also wrote: "You bang on about Happy Clapper but forget to mention he was seven before he won a Group One."

Sorry Gladys but you have been awarded a quarduple derrrr for this one.

How is it that you can not seem to comprehend that it is rather difficult to win a G1 when racing against WINX.

In any case what has age got to do with it?

I'd be happy to own a horse of any age that may have been capapable of winning a G1.

For instance I would have been more than happy to have owned an older horse like Reckless who won the Sydney Cup, Adelaide Cup and Brisbane Cup all in the same year and also ran second in the Melbourne Cup as an older horse.

Very odd post there Gaz. You want to look at Criterians strike rate at the time he raced against Winx but refuse to look at Highland Reels status only relying on future successes. You bang on about Happy Clapper but forget to mention he was seven before he won a Group One.

How are we coming along with those names Gaz?

If that is too hard for your cerebral capabilities here is another one.

Name one Australian wfa horse she beat that would have started shorter than say 200/1 in an Arc. 

Gladys,

As I have said on many occasions you need to take a remedial maths course.

Criterion's strike rate was greater than 20% when he met Winx in the 2015 Cox plate.

In any case now having referenced Criterion's overall career strike as some sort of quality ranking then you should be willing to accept the following strike rates as a measure of quality in the same manner.

Black Caviar 100%,  WINX 86%,  Sunline 67%,  Northerly 51%,  Benbatl 45%, Might & Power 45%,

Makybe Diva 42%,  etc........

So on this basis Gladys (your basis) both Black caviar & WINX were far better than Sunline & Northerly & Benbatl & Might & Power are equals.

Oh & lets not forget that according to your inane logic Makybe Diva was less than half as good as WINX and Northerly was approximately half the horse that Black Caviar was.

And WINX was approximately 28% better than Sunline.

"Exploding away from one paced stayers"

Look at the sectional splits that the past greats ran and compare them to Black Caviar and Winx. The difference is mind boggling.

Food for thought.

IMHO, Sunline was a miler who got 2000m on class. The opposition in one Cox was so weak, she demolished them! When she finally met a genuine 2000m horse (Northerly), he sailed past her in the last 200m. Northerly never went overseas and won by small margins against some very ordinary types, so what do you think a mare with explosive acceleration would have done to them?

They were champions of their time and they all had limitations, shortcomings and weaknesses, They were all beaten and some on numerous occasions. Had Winx existed in that era, your champs would have been classic versions of Happy Clapper.. 

Yes Gaz. Exploding away from one paced stayers from the same stable.

Loved that article about Criterion Gaz. Were you one of the advisers. Less than 20 per cent strike rate and equal best aged horse. What tripe. Who was he equal with in your recommendation? Humidor?

"No they weren't (invincible) Gaz. I think they might have been if they raced with the same weight, same distance range, same races and same opposition for a few years during a particularly weak or non existent period of wfa racing."

Even if they satisfied all your criteria. they would still have been beaten. Lowly types like Dandy Andy, Freemason and El Mirada are proof of that.

The difference between the two great mares and all your champions of the past, is an attribute that will set the standard for champions of the future... SUSTAINED EXPLOSIVE ACCELERATION.

Who did WINX beat (flog) in the 2015 Cox Plate?

CRITERION

Race Record: 36 Starts 7-7-7 £26,467, A$6,542,200, HK$4,500,000.

Equal Leading Older Male on the 2015 WTR (Extended). 

Yeah, what a bunch of dopes the advisors to the WTR were, apparently they should have consulted with Gladys prior to declaring this ranking as she would have set them straight by telling them that they had got it all wrong as in her opinion WINX beat nuthin.

Game set & match, obviously this proves once & for all that Gladys' opinion about anything to do with racing has no credibility and as such should be disregarded forever more.

I know who the dope or dopes are here & it aint the advisors to the WTR.

I can't wait for your pathetic response to this one Gladys, haaaa, haaa, haa, haaaaaaaaaa!

No they weren't Gaz. I think they might have been if they raced with the same weight, same distance range, same races and same opposition for a few years during a particularly weak or non existent period of wfa racing.

How many times did they get to compete in races made up of stablemates?

Interesting to note that an international raider won the Cox Plate prior to Winx's four time Cox Plate winning streak and then also the two subsequent runnings after.

Yeah, Winx beat nuthin but isnt it funny how she was able to repel all comers including international raiders in her four in a row Cox Plate winning streak.

Strange how the rest of the world simply looked on and let her become the highest prizemoney earner in the world by beating nuthin.

"Do you think Fenway, Gust of Wind or First Seal would have beaten Sunline, Northerly or Might and Power.?"

Hmm, that's a difficult one to answer. I'd say, probably not, but lets face it, Sunline, Northerly and M & P weren't invincible.

 

 

No Gaz I don't.

Do you think Fenway, Gust of Wind or First Seal would have beaten Sunline, Northerly or Might and Power.

What is your point. You have got one, have you? Diversion, insults, but no names.

You are not very clever are you darling.

Do you reckon Freemason, El Miranda, or Dandy Andy would have beaten Winx ?

Thanks for the kind words Gaz.

This "thrashing everything that came their way" is fabulous. Tell us about all the good ones that came her way. What were their names Gaz. Come on Gaz, tell us about these horses that she thrashed that made her a champion.

In your "golden era", they all took turns in beating each other.

Unlike the eras of Black Caviar and Winx, where those two mares thrashed everything that came their way.

And your infantile, imbecilic conclusion is that such dominance can only occur in weak eras. 

Idjut.

I think you need to have a good sleep after that meaningless rant Gaz.

When you have had a good rest perhaps you could tell us about another handicapper who got to race at wfa because the standard was so poor and the opposition non existent.

Gladys,

You are so full of p!ss n wind, and as such the mounting pressure appears to be impairing your judgement.

Northerly (almost an unbeatable horse) was beaten fair and square by FREEMASON there were no contibuting factors such as unfavourable conditions, weight or distance.

You say you want "horses who were at the top of their game, horses competitive in any era." The problem for us here is  that as soon as we mention a horse, any horse that WINX beat you simply dismiss it as being either not at the top of its game or simply categorise it as a lightweight as it had not won a string of G1s.

But as has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions its rather difficult to amass a tally of G1s when racing against WINX. One such horse who I believe would have been competitive in any era was HAPPY CLAPPER. If WINX is NOT around then Happy Clapper achieves a far superior record.

His current Group wins (let alone placings) currently are:

2017

ATC Epsom Handicap

G1

1600m

2018

ATC Canterbury Stakes

G1

1300m

2018

ATC Doncaster Handicap

G1

1600m

2015

ATC Villiers Stakes

G2

1600m

2017

Tatt's Tramway Handicap

G2

1400m

2017

NJC Newmarket Handicap

G3

1400m

2019

ATC Craven Plate

G3

2000m

If not running 2nd to WINX on many occasions his record would then presumably have the addition of the following Group wins:

G1 Chipping Norton

G1 George Ryder

G1 Optimo White Stakes

G1 Doncaster

G2 Apollo Stakes

That would then have been a total of 7/G1 wins,  3/G2 wins,  2/G3 wins

Further to this, had Happy Clapper not have had to run gut busting seconds to WINX time and time again any reasonably thinking person would concede that his G1 domination may have extended to a longer racing career.

So if WINX was not around and then pesumably Happy Clapper achives 7/G1 wins which puts him then in the same company or better than the following very good horses of the past.

Makybe Diva 7/G1s,  Might and Power 7/G1s,  Grand Armee 7/G1s,  Campaign King 7/G1s,  Super Impose 8/G1s minus 1/G1 that even his trainer said he should never have won.

Durbridge 6/G1s,  Shaftesbury Avenue6/G1s,  Vo Rogue 6/G1s

Shoot Out 5/G1s,  Racing to Win 5/G1s,  Eremein 5/G1s,  Starcraft 5/G1s, MANIKATO 5/G1s

Saintly 4/G1s,  Rubiton 4/G1s,  Red Anchor 4/G1s,  Juggler 4/G1s

Defier 3/G1s,  Shogun Lodge 3/G1s, Freemason 3/G1s 

So Gary, in your deluded world, the fact that some of our former champions who took on all comers over sometimes unfavourable conditions, be it weight or distance, happened to be beaten on the day by a lesser light, counters the argument that Winx beat nothing.

Bradman and all the other great champion cricketers from our past were dismissed for low scores on some occasions against part time bowlers. In your simple mind does that mean that all the fabulous innings they played against quality opposition counts for nothing?

Of course Winx won a stack of her races and was clearly the best of her era. That is not in dispute. What is in dispute is that she beat nothing but no hopers, usually from her own stable. If Khap and I are wrong, just give us the names of the good ones she beat. We don't need your usual drivel about a  horse that went on to win races some time in the future but horses who were at the top of their game, horses competitive in any era. You can't so you resort to childish abuse and obfuscation.

Good horse, best of her abysmal era, beat nuthin'.

 

No need to mention Red Excitement. I'll just throw up Freemason, El Miranda, and Dandy Andy at 150/1..

Stand by Khap. Gary will go into alias mode and come out with a blazing reverse engineering of Highland Reel.

Funnily enough, he never seems to want to mention Red Excitement or Invictus Prince, another of the two no hoping duds she chased.

Good horse, best of her era, beath nothin'.

Gladys perhaps it is a case of Gary reminding himself. There have been many posts deleted from this forum and that posts seems it could have been one of them. 

What did Winx beat?

Well in her last fourth last start she defeated Happy Clapper, Egg Tart, Patrick Erin, Unforgotten, Tom Melbourne, Aloisia, Brimham Rocks.

In her third last start she defeated  Happy Clapper, Egg Tart, Patrick Erin, Unforgotten, Brimham Rocks (the same five again, what a joke) and Libran, this is hysterical.

In her second last start she defeated Brutal, Dream Force, Prompt Response, So Si Bon, Land of Plenty, Ringerdingding and Teleplay.

In her last start she defeated Kluger, Hartnell, Happy Clapper, Shilllelagh, Mask of Time, Danzdanzdance, He's Eminent and Harlem. Kluger never ran another place in four subsequent starts. Many of Winx's opponents also failed to in subsequent starts. Highlighting once again what dud's she defeated.

I have only listed her last four starts. I could go back further but that would only bury even deeper, the argument of others like Gary.

No wonder they won't tell us what Winx beat. They might list one or two from time to time but that's as far as they get. How pathetic.

Winx, good horse, overated, beat nothing, shocking era.

Hey Gasbag, remind me where I said Humidor would win the MC.

Welcome back Khap. In answer to your question she managed to beat Humidor by about half a length.

As you will no doubt recall, Humidor was such a fabulous horse the great know it all Gary rated him on top to win the Melbourne Cup a few years ago.

Remind me again how that worked out.

GAWD!  Groundhog day.

"After a year or so away" Sure Khap. I think it'd be more accurate to say:

That during this year away you have forgotten how to scroll down or is it that you have actually forgotten how to read?

What did Winx beat?

Scroll down, read em and weep dopey, its all there!

"After a year or so away" Sure Khap. I think it'd be more accurate to say "I check in every other day, but have nothing to contribute"

Good question that. After a year or so away, that is a bloody good question; What did Winx beat ? Anyone !!

You belong on twitter.

Gee Gaz, praising your alias's ravings and then childish barbs at me.

Anything to keep the forum stats going.

Wow Gladys, another pitiful rebuttal of TheKing's flawless argument.

You must be a whizbang lawyer with quality rebuttals like that!

 

 

As predicted and right on cue. 

Gaz's alter ego appears front and centre with another ramble guaranteed to cure even the most serious case of insomnia.

Gladys re your:

"Remember the horse she was nearly beaten by had never won over that distance in her life."

Derrrrrr, it had only ever had one attempt at the distance & yes it was beaten at its first start at 1200m.

But so what?  What is your point here idjut?

Starspangled who won a Diamond Jubilee was also beaten at his first attempt at 1200m.

It is common knowledge that manyany great horses were beaten at their first attempt at 1200m.

Phar Lap, Tulloch, Shannon, Ajax, Delta, Galilee & even an out and out sprinter like Luskin Star was beaten at his first attempt at 1200m.

So like I said "What is your point here idjut?"  This is a moot point at best.

In any case, further to this it is common knowledge to any thinking / knowing racing person that the 1200m criteria is totally irrelevant when assesing the form for the Golden Jubilee at Ascot.

Even blind Freddy knows that to win a Golden Jubilee the horse has to be a strong & classy 1300m to 1400m horse if it is to have any chance of winning or coming close to winning due to the gruelling nature of the1200m Ascot course.

Moonlight Cloud was such a horse.

But unfortunately a novice like you Gladys is unsurprisingly unaware of these facts.

In regard to your:

"My issue was claiming that she actually beat anything that was any good when she had her race there."

"beat anything that was any good" ?????

Prior to meeting Black Caviar at Ascot Moonlight Cloud had had ten starts for six wins including 1/G1 & 3/G3s.

Following being beaten by Black Caviar Moonlight Cloud won eight of its next ten starts including 5/G1s & 1/G3.

Yeah right, Black Caviar didn't "beat anything that was any good"

What a dill you are Gladys, your brain is obviously so very addled from all of the boxing around the ears that I have given you & continue to give you.

Gladys, you are totally delusional if you really think that you have boxed anybodys ears except own.

 

???

Au contraire Gaz. Highlighting your mishandling of the truth and metaphorically boxing your ears on a regular basis gives me great satisfaction.

Please let me know when you would like another good clout. Must be nearly time to go into alias mode for you.

And once again you confirm that BC beat rubbish.

Nothing satisfies you, idjut.

 

Just more of your lies Gaz. I have always conceded that her connections weren't frightened to take her overseas. My issue was claiming that she actually beat anything that was any good when she had her race there. Remember the horse she was nearly beaten by had never won over that distance in her life.

I guess that is your cue to go into identity change and bore us all to death with another equine history ramble.

Then, why rubbish Black Caviar?

It is really great to see the Godolphin Enterprise considering taking Bivouac to Dubai and then on to Ascot. They don't hide behind stable mates and hang around Australia racing no hopers for the prize money, they know they have a good horse and are prepared to run him against good horses even though it means travel.

Stop sobbing and looking at those old reruns of Winx beating Invictus Prince Gaz and take a look at what connections of good race horses are prepared to do to demonstrate the horse's ability. They don't need a lot of sobbing commentators and people denigrating past champions to prove what they have.

Ah Winx. Best of her era, good horse, beat nuthin'.

 

I am not interested in your stupid rules and threats Gaz.

You have been found out so go back to talking to yourself in the mirror.

Gladys,

Re your:

"I think we have something in common Gaz.

Neither of us know who you are."

Sorry Gladys but you are the ODD (operative word) one out.

Both Gary & I know who we are & that we are not the same person.

That leaves only you as being the ODD one Gladys.

Hers a challenge for you Gladys.

Contact the moderator to verify whether Gary & I are in fact the same person.

If we are in fact proven by the moderator to be the same person I will donate $1,000 to a charity of your choice.

BUT

If we are in fact proven to be two different people by the moderator you will then be liable to donate $1,000 to a charity of my choice.

Like Gary said:

Put up or shut up MUG.

 

Search function is a cinch. Put the quote up, or shutup. 

A Winx troll who is so wrong about so many things on so many fronts. The mind boggles!

I think we have something in common Gaz.

Neither of us know who you are.

Did you ever see that telemovie with Sally Field? I think it was called Sybil.

Gary of course she's confused.

As pointed out recently by me she doesn't even know what time it is let alone what day it is or who she is actualy conversing with.

Of course she's confusing you with somebody else, just like she is adamant that  you and I are the same person.

I'm sorry but I feel that poor old Gladys doesn't have the mental capacity to differentiate between one Gary & another Gary.

I think you will find that in Gladys' very confused & delusional world she thinks that "ALL" people called Gary are the same person.

It's very sad really, imagine going through life day after day & year after year in such a confused state.

Cheers from Gary, no, no thats not right I mean theking 

OR

Is it KING GARY Gladys?

Take your pick it probably doesn't really matter much in your confused little world.

Why would it as you are obviously very used to being wrong about anything and everything all of the time.

 

 

Are you confusing me with Gary Crispe?

Put the quote up or shutup.

Read the R and S website Gaz. I have given it to you before. Last time I pointed out your quote you had an identity crisis shortly thereafter.

As for your other assertions, who cares what some group of people decide which horse is the best without the horses ever competing against each other. How could anyone take that seriously when she competed against duds.

Good horse, best of her era, beat nothin'.

Longines rated Winx as the world's best racehorse. You rated four horses as far superior. Thats right - four horses superior to a world champion. So if these horses that you claim can destroy the world's best, are not champions, then what on earth are they?

Your statement that I rated Humidor on top is utter bullshit. I have shown heaps of your own quotes to prove your stupidity, but you have NEVER produced a quote from me, about Humidor.. 

Idjut

Once again when you are found out lying you try your little spin.

Where did I call them champion Gary.

As for top of world rankings what tripe. She was top of your stupid rankings, not mine.

It was your rankings and ratings that had Humidor on top to win the Melbourne Cup a couple of years ago. Remind me, did he come last or second last.

Try telling the truth now and then.

Yeah, Winx beat nuthin.

Or is it that the INTERNATIONAL trainers were too stupid to target our massive prizemoney against Winx

OR 

Was it hat they were smart enough to mostly avoid her at all costs and target races that they were more confident in successfully winning such as the Caulfield and Melbourne Cups.

It is no coincidence that Ithe INTERNATIONAL RAIDERS won the Cox plate immediately before and after her reign of four succesive Cox Plates.

A further two INTERNATIONAL RAIDERS were also successful in winning IMO our most prestegious WFA race as soon as her reign ended.

Or was it that the oversea trainers were also of the same opinion as Gladys in thinking:

Now heres a good idea lets let WINX win approx 14.5 million pounds beating nuthin year after year in the Cox Plate.

Yeah, we are not scared of her and we are not greedy we are happy to let her win the lot and become the highest prizemoney earner that world has ever seen.

Yes Gary I agree Gladys is an idjut.

This from 6th March 2020

Winx 14,564,743 pounds

Arrogate 13,671,322 pounds

 

Gladys you said "I have never called those horses champions, Gary"

Fenway, First Seal - you said would have "flogged" and "towelled" Winx. 

Sir Dragonet -  "That Cox Plate field today was miles better than anything Winx ever beat"

Lys Gracieux - "What a horse.. capable of mighty deeds and no need for stablemates to ride shotgun. ..wonder why Winx didn't travel then just watch this race a few times"

So Gladys, if Winx was at the top of the world rankings, and you rate these four horses vastly superior, then aren't you suggesting they are champions?

 

I have never called those horses champions, Gary.

You really have a problem with truth don't you.

One thing about those particular horses though, none of them contested races made up of stablemates and duds.

Tell us Gary. Who were the great horses she beat during those four years of your uncontrolled sobbing and adulation?

Gladys,

You rate horses like First Seal, Fenway (both beat Winx early 2015) and Lys Gracieux, Sir Dragonet (recent Cox Plates winners) as champions. These four horses ran in the period 2014 to 2020.

In the four year  “Winx supremacy period” (16th May 2015 to 13th April 2019) you claim there were only “duds” racing. Yet in the brief period BEFORE and brief period AFTER, we apparently had 4 champions!

You are just too stupid to realise that every horse before Winx’s winning spree, and every horse after, looks so much better, simply because she’s not there.

Idjut.

Gladys,

Re your: It is after midnight and whilst the rest of the normal world is asleep this imbecile is pounding away on his keyboard.

after midnight?????

What a dill you are, you obviously have NO IDEA about the concept of a twenty four clock as used for the timing of posts on this thread.

Most of us "NORMAL" people understand the concept of the twenty four hour clock but perhaps you and your friends in the remedial class have not yet gone beyond:

"When the big hand is on the twelve and the little hand is on the ten what time is it?"

Perhaps in a month or two after you and your class mates have had their after lunch sleep

(which you apparently regard regard as normal)

your remedial teachers may even feel that your class is perhaps ready to cope with extending you to learning all about how to read the half past the hours as well as the o'clocks.

But don't be too concerned if you don't actually understand this new and difficult skill for you Gladys.

I am sure that your teachers will allow you to repeat it all again next year until you are hopefully ready to then cope with learning the new concept of the half pasts.

I am reasonably sure that in ten years or so if you work really hard and have extra help you may even be ready to attempt to grasp the concept of twent four hour time like us "NORMAL" people know and understand.

Whenever I feel like a GREAT BIG BELLY LAUGH all I need to do is to rewiew the latest blunder or past blunders that Glays has posted and continues to post.

Please don't change Gladys, YOU ARE THE GIFT THAT KEEPS GIVING!

You are and have always been a  constant source of amusement and merriment for your Jolly Old KING.

ha, ha, haa, haa, haaaaaa, haaaaaa! thank you for being such a dunderhead, my belly is once again wobbling like a big bowl of jelly.

Gladys you are a complete imbecile!

Kiss my Royal Ring once again dopey!

 

It is after midnight and whilst the rest of the normal world is asleep this imbecile is pounding away on his keyboard.

 

Whenever I feel like a laugh all I need to do is give the chain a yank and this dill starts yapping.

Gladys, further to my:

"you have no idea of recognising strong INTERNATIONAL form lines when you see them."

Sir Dragonet ran a close second to Anthony Van Dyck in the Epsom Derby.

Anthony Van Dyck beat the champion stayer STRADIVARIUS in the G2 Prix Foy.

STRADIVARIUS is the undisputed best stayer in the world having won three G1 Ascot Gold Cups & four G1 Goodwood Cups.

This strong INTERNATIONAL form was franked by Anthony Van Dyck being narrowly beaten in the Caulfield Cup by Verry Ellegant and Sir Dragonet winning the Cox Plate.

Gladys it would appear based on all of your pevious comments posted on this thread that you are of the opinion that there has NOT been one DECENT horse to have competed in "ANY" of the last seven runnings of the G1 Cox Plate.

Is this correct Gladys?

I challenge you to answr this question.

A simple YES or No answer is required.

Failure to answer either YES or NO to this simple question will see your already crumbling debating position fall into oblivion and in fact be an admission that you have "YIELDED" to the superior intellect of your Jolly Old King.

Gotcha Gladys!

ha, ha, ha, haa, haa, haaaaaa!

 

 

Oh dear,

Poor Gladys it looks like I have struck a nerve.

Put "SIMPLY" (operative word) 

When someone’s arguments take the form of personal attacks and name-calling it’s a pretty clear admission that they don’t have anything valid or worthwhile to say.

Insults are the last resort of an insecure person with a crumbling position attepting to appear still confident in their failed debating strategy.

Like I said previosly Gladys:

"you have no idea of recognising strong INTERNATIONAL form lines when you see them."

No Gary it doesn't prove what a champ she was. It just proves what a total dill you are.

Am I the only one to notice that there have been three INTERNATIONAL raiders who have won our Cox Plate out of the last seven runnings.

What happened in the other four runnings?

The CHAMPION mare WINX put all INTERNATIONAL raiders to the sword!

Interesting to note that in recent times our Melb Cup & Caulfield Cup have fallen time and time again to  the INTERNATIONAL raiders but in our other GREAT race the Cox Plate WINX has repelled ALL challenges.

What a CHAMP she was!

I tell you what has been put in perspective Gladys & that is that you have no idea of recognising strong INTERNATIONAL form lines when you see them.

This is why you more than likely did NOT back the winner of the Cox Plate.

These are FACTS:

1. Sir Dragonet won a G3 by 8 len as a 3yo

2. Was beaten 0.8 len in the Epsom Derby by the subsequent runner up to Verry Ellegant (6/G1s) in winning the G1 Caulfield Cup.

3. Prior to winning the Cox Plate Sir Dragonet ran 2,25 len 2nd to Magical when carrying 3lb more in the G1 Ire Gold Cup 2012m.

4. As a 5yo mare Magical has the following form lines:

1st G1 Ire Pretty Polly Stakes

1st G1 Ire Gold Cup

2nd G1 Judmonte

1st G1 Ire Champion Stakes when beating 4th placed Sottsash, the subsequent 2020 Arc de Triomphe and 3rd placed in the Arc the previous year. 

3rd G1 GB Champion Stakes

5. Further to this it is duely noted that Armory (12 - 4 - 3 - 3) who finished 2nd in the Cox Plate also finished 3rd to Magical in the G1 Ire Champion Stakes therfore also finishing in front of Sottsash the Arc winner & pllacegetter.

How many other Cox Plate winners can boast such strong INTERNATIONAL formlines?

 

 

 

 

 

 

That Cox Plate field today was miles better than anything Winx ever beat yet the winner is a Listed and Group Three winner only before this race.

 

Puts it all into perspective doesn't it!

Yes Lion Hunter you are right I have now confirmed that in all probability Happy Clapper would have ended up in the same league or better than the following horses had it not had to race against WINX:

Sainly 4/G1s,  Rubiton 4/G1s,  Manikato  5/G1s,  Vo Rogue 6/G1s,  Makybe Diva 7/G1s,  Weekend Hussler 7/G1s,  Might and Power 7/G1s,  Super Impose 8/G1s minus the Cox Plate he should NEVER have won = 7/G1s.

There is not point dwelling on mediocrity in the horses that WINX beat the fact is that nobody can deny that she flogged the likes of Happy Clapper, Highland Reel & Chautauqua

I know Lion Hunter. The poor fellow is just a total clown and a fruit loop.

Check out the capitals, the underlining and the bold text. Just imagine the look on his deluded dial when he is punching that tripe into his keyboard.

If it wasn't so pathetic it would be funny.

Gladys, All he has achieved with his latest rant is to confirm the point you were making.

CORRECTION TO PREVIOUS POST (sorry about that)

Gladys,

So much for "providing some form of logical argument." you are obviously incapable of providing any form of logical arguement to deny my claims that you would have declared Happy Clapper a CHAMPION of the modern era had he not had to race against WINX. Further to this I dare say that his record may well have proven to be even better than my hypothetical suggestion simply because it may have had an "EXTENDED" G1 winning racing career simply becuse it would not have had to bust a gut trying to beat WINX.

Why do I say that your arguement is illogical?

Simply because 50% (3) of the (6) horses nominated by you never won a Stakes race of any description let alone a single G1.

The other three of these nominated horses never won a single G1.

Its hardly a logical arguement to attempt to compare any of your nominated horses to a multiple G1 winner of the quality of HAPPY CLAPPER is it?

Gladys,

So much for "providing some form of logical argument." you are obviously incapable of providing any form of logical arguement to deny my claims that you would have declared Happy Clapper a CHAMPION of the modern era had he not had to race against WINX. Further to this I dare say that his record may well have proven to be even better than my hypothetical suggestion simply because it may have had an "EXTENDED" G1 winning racing career simply becuse it would not have had to bust a gut trying to beat WINX.

Why do I say that your arguement is illogical?

Simply because 50% (3) of the (6) horses nominated by you never won a Stakes race of any description let alone a single G1.

Another two of these nominated horses never won a single G1 and the other only won one G1.

To be fair its hardly a logical arguement to attempt to compare any of them to a multiple G1 winner of the quality of HAPPY CLAPPER is it?

Great post there Gaz but why leave it there. If she had not been around then Invictus Prince, Sons of John,  Zedi Knight, Alpha Miss, Inz'n'Out, Ungrateful Ellen would also be Group winners. 

Just so much talent denied there.

If WINX is NOT around then Happy Clapper achieves a far superior record.

His current Group wins (let alone placings) currently are:

2017

ATC Epsom Handicap

G1

1600m

2018

ATC Canterbury Stakes

G1

1300m

2018

ATC Doncaster Handicap

G1

1600m

2015

ATC Villiers Stakes

G2

1600m

2017

Tatt's Tramway Handicap

G2

1400m

2017

NJC Newmarket Handicap

G3

1400m

2019

ATC Craven Plate

G3

2000m

If not running 2nd to WINX on many occasions his record would then presumably have the addition of the following Group wins:

G1 Chipping Norton

G1 George Ryder

G1 Optimo White Stakes

G1 Doncaster

G2 Apollo Stakes

That would then have been a total of 7/G1 wins,  3/G2 wins,  2/G3 wins

 

Ha, ha, Haa, ha, haaa, haaaaa

GOTCHA Gladys.

If you're HAPPY and you know it CLAP your hands!

HAPPY CLAPPER would have satisified all of your lame criteria to be declared a CHAMPION of the modern era in Gladys' delusional world of racing, provided that it NEVER raced against WINX.

Let's see if you have either the intestinal fortitude or intellect to explain this one away, or at least deny its credibility, by providing some form of logical argument.

Gladys,

You say:

"Forty three races Gaz and not one name."

Well heres a name for you Gladys:

How about HAPPY CLAPPER? 

If WINX had never raced, then based on your past insistence that for horses to be declared GREAT they have to have not only won a multitude of Group ones but they should also have had to be  beaten in Group ones by other good horses.

What would HAPPY CLAPPERS record be if it never had to race against WINX?

You for one would be declaring it a CHAMPION of the modern era.

GOTCHA, Gladys you cant deny this one.

Hi Gladys, its been a long time. Was thinking about how Winx foals will go. Top bloodlines do not mean much but it’s certainly an advantage, but in my case there certainly were question marks.



As a young fellow I won the egg and spoon race, the sack race, and the tunnel ball. All this happened on the same day, believe it or not. Unheard of. The big wigs refused to put me in the record books as they said I had help in the Tunnel Ball.

I still feel i was very hard done by. Top breeding meant little that day as my full sister could not even make the fields.

That was a long time ago and I have been in many paddocks since. When I was on messenger a while back i used to go by the name myasswontfitinthegrave.



This may give you an idea what happened to this athlete.


Gladys, you said "all you could manage was to denigrate past champions"

Simply return fire for denigrating current champions.

Forty three races Gaz and not one name.

I have no more to say on this topic. Blather, divert, insult, do anything you like. You have had I think about two years to come up with a name and all you could manage was to denigrate past champions and call me names for pointing out what most race followers already knew.

Here it is for the last time;

Good horse, best of her era, beat nuthin'

I will leave this topic for you and your other identity to continue on with the mutual admiration.

Speaking of needing a good laugh, what is your top rater for this year's Melbourne Cup. Humidor will be hard to beat.

This is the logic by which Gladys rates a horse:

Wins/Starts - Man O' War 20/21, Zenyatta 19/20, Brigadeer Gerard 17/18 were all in Gladys' opinion actually better horses than the following list of unbeaten horses because they were beaten at least once. 

Black Caviar 25/25, Ribot 16/16, Nearco 14/14, Frankel 14/14

So according to Gladys you have to have been beaten at least once to be a better horse than an unbeaten horse????

Now, rightly or wrongly that is how the logic is worked out in Gladys' DELUSIONAL WORLD OF RACING

GO FIGURE !

Your sole basis for believing that the quality of horses suddenly and mysteriously declined during the Black Caviar and Winx era, is that the two mares never got beaten. If the two mares can't be beat, then the opposition must be weak. A nice semi-rhme for you to illustrate the vacuousness of your perceptions.

Two mares so brilliant and bulletproof, that they became invincible and rewrote history. Yet your puerile conclusion was that they met weak opposition - a view for which you have not produced a shred of evidence.

Who knows, maybe if they'd both been beaten a dozen times, so that G1's were shared, that could have convinced you that they had worthy opposition. Unfortunately, acceptance of the concept of invincibility does your head in. It's beyond your powers of reasoning and way outside your scope of appreciation.

Go back to the dark ages and enjoy the era of fallible champs.


Thank you all for your concerns & your suggested home remedies for gout relief.

Unfortunatelly according to the Royal physician the problem is exacerbated by too much high living and an excess of red wine & port as well as the insistance that I should loose 40 or 50 kgs or so.

But that wont be happening, who wants a jolly old King that looks like a stick figure?

I tried a couple of the suggested home remedies but they didnt work too well as its hard to swallow liquids when you are laughing constantly & wobbling like a big bowl of jelly, you tend to simply blubber it out.

No more attempts at home remedies for me I'm afraid as I have come to the realisitation that

LAUGHTER TRULY IS THE BEST MEDICINE.

Yes mirth & levity really are great healers & you continually provide me with both in spades Gladys, well done. 

Keep the stupidity coming Gladys it is working a treat for me.

You can look forward to me publishing these recent additional delusions to the already long list of the Delusional Racing World according to Gladys.

Like Criterion never won a G1 at WFA over 2000m before running second to WINX in the 2015 Cox Plate

AND

There were a multitude of no hopers finishing between Highland Reel & WINX in the 2015 Cox Plate.

Ha, ha, ha, ha hearty ha, haaaaaaa, KEEP EM COMING GLADYS YOU MAKE MY DAY!

I cant wait for the next bit of stupidity that you are going to post but I dare say that I am going to be disappointed as it will be pretty hard to top your most recent nitwit version of past events. 


A table spoon of Braggs organic ACV each morning in a glass of water and you will never get gout again. Cherry concentrate is also good. Some celery seeds from the health food shop made into a tea with boiling water once every two weeks will detox you and rid you of Uric acid.

As to Winx you are soundly found wanting Gaz. Live in your deluded media world, I have said my last on this topic

I think your logic is well placed with your rating of Humidor in the Melbourne Cup, tailed off last.

King,

Anything with cherries helps enormously. Cherry juice, dried cherries or fresh cherries. Cherry juice is available at supermarkets.

ACV (Apple Cider Vinegar) as suggested by Gladys, may or may not help. If you use it, make sure its very diluted, drink a glass of water straight after and then rinse your mouth out.

Cheers.

Apple cider vinegar for your gout Gaz.

Nothing I can think of for your blathering though. I think it is too far gone.

Gladys re your:

If he (Highland Reel) was good then the reason must have been either he suffered severe interference, did not handle the track, was injured or just had an off day from the travel. You see, otherwise he would have flogged those no hopers that finished in front of him. They had not won at wfa, Group Ones or over that distance. 

Why didn't you nominate all those no hopers that finished in front of him in that Plate as horses that would have stood out in any era, after all, they beat him easily and he is your standout.

Looks like we have some "MORE DELUSIONS" to add to the list of the racing world according to Gladys.

Sorry Gladys but you are again being extremely delusional if you actually think as stated that there were multiple horses finishing between Highland Reel & WINX in the 2015 Cox Plate.

Highland Reel finished third & Criterion finished second.

I suggest that you  enrol yourself in a remedial maths course as all us non delusional people know that there is Not too much room in between third & first to include multiple horses as per your delusional references such as "those no hopers" AND OR "They" "horses" both being terms alluding to more than one,

Sorry to be the one to break this news to you Gladys but the only position between 3rd & first is 2nd and that position was taken by Criterion, there were no other horses finishing between 3rd and first, only Criterion.

Oh & heres another delusion to add to your list Gladys.

You said: "They had not won at wfa, Group Ones or over that distance."

As you were talking about

"those no hopers that finished in front of him." 

And the fact that only one horse other than the winner WINX finished in front of Highland Reel you must have been directing your comments towards Criterion.

Therefore you are saying that "They (Criterion) had not won at wfa, Group Ones or over that distance."

Yet again more delusions which can be accredited to you Gladys as the FACTS are that Criterion had won the G1 WFA Queen Elizabeth Stakes 2000 m & the G1 WFA Caulfield Stakes 2000 m prior to running second to WINX in the Cox Plate.

Please don't change Gladys, you are a constant source of amusement for me.

Your jolly old King relies upon you continuing to provide him with a great big belly laugh every now and then, ha, ha, ha, ha, haaa, haaa, this is so much fun, I am wobbling like a big bowl of jelly as I write.

I thank you for your stupidity as it takes my mind off the pain of my gout.

 

 

Forty three races Gaz and you can't name one.

All our great horses of the past and you rubbish them in an attempt to bolster her success against a lack of competition.

What a low piece of work you are.

"Blah blah blah" The most sensible thing you've said on this thread.

Blah blah blah! 

Best ever in the history of Australian racing, best in the World, everyone too frightened to come here to face her, all the good ones hiding and you can't name one horse in over 40 races.

Go and wave your flag and have a sob.

Just remember, good horse, best of her weak era, drumroll.....beat nuthin!

Gladys,

How many of our CHAMPION racehorses from the past other than WINX can boast formlines closely aligned and or related to Arc de Triomphe form?

Hmmm, now lets see now I am reasonably sure that most thinking people (me included) would consider that So You Think (NZ) could almost be claimed as one of our CHAMPIONS.

However he was flogged by a 4yo mare by the name of Damedream in the 2011 Arc de Triomphe when finishing fouth.

Prior to the Arc, Damedream had only won 2/G1s in Germany.

Our other great Aus champ who went over for the Arc, Strawberry Road, suffered a similar initiation when finishing 5th.

How many of our CHAMPION racehorses from the past, other than WINX, can boast formlines closely aligned and or related to good Arc de Triomphe form?


If you are going to ridicule Winx's opposition, then consider how lowly the opposition in the 2000 Cox Plate must appear, if Sunline as a specialist MILER, could cane them by 7 lengths.

 

That's just it Gaz. She only just annihilated no hopers, no champions amongst them. Just a procession of stablemates and one pacers.

Let's face it. You have got no answer just insults and deflections.

Do you feel as stupid as I made you look?

You dismissed Moonlight Cloud as credible oppostion when Black Caviar beat it overseas.

You dismiss Highland Reel whom your "yesteryear" horses "would have cleaned ..up quite easily"

Even If Winx annihilated every champion in the world, you would have chimed in with  "best of her era, beat nuthin".

I can fix a lot of things, but I can't fix stupid.

 

Gees Gaz, now you are going into red print in an attempt to get out of this one. I don't care about all the quotes, the abuse, the comparisons, your ratings, the deflections, none of it matters. The fact is that she had over forty starts, over forty, and you cannot name one horse that she beat that would have been a standout in any era.

Now usually when either Khap or myself post anything on this forum you and your bottom kissing disciples flood on in great haste with criticism. I have been banging on about this one point, not that she wasn't a good horse and the best or her era, but simply she was in a hopeless era and beat nuthin', yet no one has come in to assist you, only your made up alias.. You have had a couple of years and over forty races to look at and can only come up with poor old Highland Reel. You then proceed to raise him to utter champion status in an attempt to bolster her. Well, those horses that finished in front of him in the Cox Plate must all be superstars too. Care to name them and declare them as standouts in any era?

Forty races Gaz, give us the name(s) of these wfa champions who would have been standouts in any era.

 

Gladys, you said...

"I don't really rate him (Highland Reel) as being anything special. Most of our good wfa horses of yesteryear would have cleaned him up quite easily." 

“Northerly and the others that I mentioned would towel the horses that Winx beats by 12 lengths.” 

In other words Northerly and Sunline wouild have beaten Highland Reel by 12 lengths.

Oh dear.

What a stupid question posed only to deflect from the main issue. You can't name any standout horses that she beat so you dig up these meaningless propositions to sound knowledgeable.

I don't know whether he would have beaten her. I don't really rate him as being anything special. Most of our good wfa horses of yesteryear would have cleaned him up quite easily. You just reverse engineer the poor horse to prop up Winx s you cannot name anything else.

Now, for the lst time. Which horses did she beat that would have been standouts in any other era. If that is too hard, name the horses that finished between HR and Winx in that Cox Plate who you rate as standouts in any era.

I am not interested in answering anything else. Put up or shut up Gary. You have been found out to have no answer.

Okay, if the Cox Plate had been run AFTER the Vase, with luck in running and all being well, by how much would Highland Reel have beaten Winx?

I don't know how much he improved Gary. If he did improve then he must have either had an off day or suffered interference (which he did) when he raced in the Cox Plate. Who cares! 

Obviously if he did improve dramatically then he should have won the Cox Plate but for whatever went wrong on that day.

What is your point? You can't name a decent horse she beat so you carry on with all this tripe about whether another horse improved or later became a good horse. What about the horses that finished between Winx and HR. Which ones of those would have been standout horses in any era?

Blather on about that!

Gladys, enough of the rhetoric; just give me a number! How many lengths did Highland Reel improve to win the Vase?

Yes Gary, keep talking to yourself. Between all your flag waving and talking to yourself have you ever considered just how ridiculous your propositions regarding Highland Reel really are?

Consider this; Just say HR was a champion in the making, He is beaten by Winx and then immediately goes on to great achievements on the international scene. If he was already an established star then he would have run second to Winx, not six lengths back. He was beaten by a heap of other no hopers, why was that? Why would he then go on and win overseas if he couldn't beat those hacks that finished between him and Winx?

If he was good then the reason must have been either he suffered severe interference, did not handle the track, was injured or just had an off day from the travel. You see, otherwise he would have flogged those no hopers that finished in front of him. They had not won at wfa, Group Ones or over that distance. Maybe he was using that classic Winx excuse, "still learning his craft".

Why didn't you nominate all those no hopers that finished in front of him in that Plate as horses that would have stood out in any era, after all, they beat him easily and he is your standout.

You have got nuthin' except abuse, diversions and blather. A pea brain driving a big mouth. Instead of your useless tripe why don't you stick to making ratings and then perhaps you colour them in and put them next to your cap and flag.

Good horse, best of her era, beat nuthin'!

 

Sorry about that

Should have read

Imaging

Super Storm

 

Thanx

 

Sorry about my previous error.

Hey King, I can't fault your response, but i think you touched a nerve.

She's run outta ammo!

She can't even tell me how many lengths improvement HR made to win the Vase.

 

 

I don't have to prove anything to a total clown like you Gary. Your the one with your big flapping mouth declaring she was the greatest horse in Australian history and the greatest in the world, not me.

Who did she beat, no one? She just beat stable mates and no hopers whilst imbeciles like yourself burst into tears and waved flags.

I have justified my opinion. Unfortunately you cannot justify yours, otherwise your posts would include some facts, not just underlining, highlighting, suppositions and abuse.

Good horse, best of her era, beat nuthin'!

Gladys, 

You incorrectly said:

"(except a three year old at the START of his career who had travelled to the other side of the world)"

He was actually well into and well performed in his racing career and at the chronological age of approximately 3 years & eight months prior to being thrashed by WINX in the Cox Plate which is why he had to carry far more weight than our 3yo colts & geldings.

This is decreed by the WFA scale for a 3yo Northern Hemisphere colt.

Similarly only approximately 7 weeks later when very nearly a 4yo he thrashed FLINTSHIRE (the 2014 winner} in the 2015 G1 WFA  Hong Kong Vase.

It is well documented that FLINTSHIRE who ran 2 lengths 2nd to Golden Horn in the 2015 Arc de Triompe just prior to being thrashed by Highland Reel in the G1 Hong Kong Vase was an exceptional racehorse.

It is also woth noting that Golden Horn not only won the Arc but also won the Epsom Derby, Eclipse Stakes & the Irish Champion Stakes.

Further to this it should also be noted that this 2015 Arc field also included the 2013 & 2014 Arc winner TREVE.

There are only a handfull of horses who can be listed in the ELITE COMPANY of horses who have won two Arc de Triomphes.

Some of those include ENABLE, TREVE, ALLEGED & RIBOT.

How many CHAMPION race horses from the past other than WINX can boast formlines closely aligned and or related to Arc de Triomphe form?

Interested to hear you answer to that one Gladys.

Should be easy for you as you continue to insist that many of our CHAMPIONS of the past were far better horses than WINX who supposedly beat nuthin.

Of course you will probably come up with the old chestnut that yeah but they didn't travel but hey neither did WINX.

The bottom line is that unless you can align or link our past CHAMPIONS form drawing a line through high class G1 International form then they are all only very big fish who raced in a very small pond against a bunch of tiny little minows.

Over to you Gladys, heres your chance to prove once and for all that WINX actually beat nuthin and that our past CHAMPIONS were not simply big fish in a tiny little pond.

Put up or shut up dopey!

 

 

 

 

What was the improvement in lengths from the Cox to the Vase? Just give me a number.

 

 

I think poor old Highland Reel has had more press from you in trying to come up with a name then he ever did throughout the world from the racing press.

In her whole racing career, is that all you have got? A three year old at the beginning of his career. Is that the only name you can come up with after all her race starts?

Good horse. best of her era, beat nuthin (except a three year old at the start of his career who had travelled to the other side of the world)

Following being flogged by HIGHLAND REEL in the G1 2015 Hong Kong Vase FLINTSHIRE went on to have 5 further starts as a 6yo producing 2 / G1 wins, 1 / G2 win & 2 / G1 2nds.

WINX flogged Highland Reel in a G1

THEN

Aproximately 7 weeks later Highland Reel the nuthin horse flogged FLINTSHIRE in a G1

Good points well made Gary

AND

Further to this lets take a look at some of the G1 form that FLINTSHIRE displayed prior to and including being flogged by the nuthin horse HIGHLAND REEL.



G1 2015 SARATOGA 1st 2.5L Sword Dancer Stks (Grd1 3yo) 2414m 55.5
G1 2014 SHA TIN 1st 0.4L HONG KONG VASE 2400m 57.0
G1 2013 LONGCHA 1st 1.5L JUDDMONTE 3CF OPEN 2400m 58.0
G1 2015 SHA TIN 2nd 1.4L HONG KONG VASE OPEN 2400m 57.0
G1 2015 LONGCHA 2nd 2.0L PRIX DE L'ARC DE TRIOMPHE 2400m 59.5
G1 2015 SAINT CLO 2nd 1.2L GRAND PRIX 2400m 58.0
G1 2015 MEYDAN 2nd 2.2L Dubai Sheema Classic 2410m 57.0
G1 2014 SANTA AN 2nd 0.5L Breeders' Cup (Grd1 3yo) 2414m 57.0
G1 2014 LONGCHA 2nd 2.0L PRIX ARC DE TRIOMPHE OPEN 2400m 59.5
G1 2014 EPSOM DO 2nd 2.0L Investec Coronation Cup OPEN 2414m 57.0
G1 2015 EPSOM DO 3rd 1.9L Investec Coronation Cup OPEN 2423m 57.0
G1 2014 SAINT CLO 4th 3.6L PRIX GD PX OPEN 2400m 58.0

Following being flogged by HIGHLAND REEL in the G1 2015 Hong Kong Vase FLITSHIRE went on to have 5 further starts as a 6yo.

Gary,

Re your comment 

  1. "Evidently, HR went from “nuthin” to “sumthin” in one start."

Hey fair go there Gary dont forget that you have to take into account that Highland Reel had a whole seven or so weeks to make this improvement.

 

Highland Reel – BEFORE and AFTER meeting Winx

15/08/2015 - GRD 1- 2000m   - WON  by 5.2 lens from Closing Belle in U.S

12/09/2015 - GRP 1 - 2000m  - 5th        by 3.8 lens to GOLDEN HORN in Ireland (Track soft)

24/10/2015 - GRP 1 - 2040m  - 3rd        by 5.5 lens to WINX in Australia

13/12/2015 - GRP 1 - 2400m  - WON  by 1.5 lens from FLINTSHIRE in H.K.

To further highlight your stupidity:

  1. The above list shows four starts in four different countries. Not bad for a “nuthin” horse.
  2. HR was a duffer in the wet, having not won (and often finishing rearward) in 7 attempts, which may explain the loss to Golden Horn on 12/09/2015.
  3. With Flintshire favourite in the Vase on 13/12/2015, how does a “nuthin” horse like HR (a) get installed 2nd favourite in the Vase (b) comfortably win that race ...- immediately following a thrashing from Winx?!  
  1. Evidently, HR went from “nuthin” to “sumthin” in one start.

Cheers

PS. If you believe HR was "nuthin", how many lengths did it improve from the Cox Plate to the Vase? 

Great post Gaz. Plenty of highlighting, capitals, multiple question marks and insults. There is something missing though isn't there!

What could it be? Oh yes, a horse's name. The best you can do is to bang on about a horse that won after the event.

You know it Gaz, just come to terms with it.  She beat nuthin' that was any good at the time.

Good horse, best of her era, beat nuthin'!

 

Gladys re your:

"Winx never met or defeated any horse that would have been classed as a standout performer in any era."

AND

Your subsequent comment:

"That was all after the event Gaz. How many times do I have to tell you about reverse engineering on that poor horse."

"That was all after the event" ????????????????

Of course it was after the event dopey, Highland Reel proved his absolute class before, during and after meeting WINX.

Correct me if I am wrong here but the way I see it Highland Reel proved himself to be "standout performer in any era." 

Surely you are NOT going to try to convince us that Highland Reel's incredibly classy performances in the era following his clash with WINX is not or can NOT be inluded as or be defined as an era are you?

Before you proceed any form of retort or further comment Gladys I suggest that you get back to your remedial Enhlish class & have your teacher explain the definition of the words ANY & ERA.

An era can be past present or future, can it NOT?

Or perhaps the actual problem here is Gladys is that you don't really understand what you are trying to say or trying to ask as you are simply more than a little confused.

I hope that your remedial English teachers can help you but I suggest that they are going to need plenty of patience with a DUNCE like you.

That was all after the event Gaz. How many times do I have to tell you about reverse engineering on that poor horse.

It is a bit like finding some kid that when he was ten  hit a five year old Dennis Lillee for six and then spent the rest of his life trying to convince others that he was a star because of that act. When she was beating up those stable mate no hopers you were all crowing that "all the good ones were avoiding her". We know what happened next though don't we. She retired and "all those good ones" got beaten up by nine year olds.

Good horse, best of her pathetic era, beat nuthin'.

Gladys,

You said: "Although being the best of her era in Australia,"

"Winx never met or defeated any horse that would have been classed as a standout performer in any era."

This from Wiki

"Highland Reel (foaled 21 February 2012) is an Irish Thoroughbred racehorse. In a career running from June 2014 to December 2017 he raced in Ireland, Britain, France, the United States, Australia, Hong Kong and Dubai, and recorded seven victories at Group 1 or Grade 1 level in the Secretariat Stakes, Hong Kong Vase (twice), King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes, Breeders' Cup Turf, Coronation Cup and Prince of Wales's Stakes. He was also placed in the Prix du Jockey Club, Cox Plate, International Stakes, Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe and Champion Stakes.

He holds the record for the greatest amount of prize money earned by a racehorse trained in Europe."

WHAT MORE WOULD HIGHLAND REEL HAVE HAD TO DO TO BE CLASSED AS A STANDOUT PERFORMER IN ANY ERA?

 

Great little article there Gaz. That would have had you sobbing your heart out when you cut and pasted that for me. I see the author agrees with me when he or she states that BC was the best of this generation. Hmm..seems not to mention "ever" like you do though.

Whilst we are spruiking little known facts about something that is irrelevant to the topic of this thread, how about me giving you a well known fact about Winx. 

Although being the best of her era in Australia, Winx never met or defeated any horse that would have been classed as a standout performer in any era.

Put the handkerchief down for a minute and focus Gaz. Who did she beat that would counter that argument.

"31 Little-Known Black Caviar Facts"

1. Black Caviar retired unbeaten – 25 starts for 25 wins

2. 24 starts in stakes company for 24 wins

3. Black Caviar collected her 20th straight victory in the Robert Sangster Stakes-G1 at Morphetville on 28 April 2012, beating the previous Australasian record of 19 straight wins set by both Desert Gold (1915-1917) and Gloaming (1919-1921) almost 100 years ago.

4. That 20th victory also broke the modern day international record for the top level of thoroughbred racing set by the brilliant USA-trained mare, Zenyatta, who scored 19 consecutive wins before tasting defeat in her 20th and final start. Black Caviar subsequently made it 21 out of 21 in the Distinctive Homes Goodwood at Morphetville on 12 May.

5. Her total winning margin is 79.7 Lengths

6. Black Caviar was born on 18 August, 2006 at 5.20am

7. Black Caviar was bottle fed as a foal

8. Assigned by Swettenham Stud as Lot 520 at the 2008 Inglis Melbourne Premier Yearling Sale, Black Caviar was purchased by Peter Moody for $210,000

9. Black Caviar’s stable name is Nelly

10. Black Caviar’s height is is 16.2 HH – 5 foot 4.8 inches or 164.6 centimetres

11. Black Caviar weighs approx 570kg

12. Broken in by Brett Cavanough at Albury

13. She is a phenomenon on Twitter and Facebook, with over 70,000 followers

14. Her name was chosen by co-owner Pam Hawkes because Black Caviar’s grand dam (grand mother) was Scandinavia, which is the international hub of Black Caviar

15. Colours of salmon with black dots were designed by co-owner Gary Wilkie’s daughter Shannon (these are now trademarked)

16. She has won in Australia’s capital cities – Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide

17. Black Caviar loves swimming & going to the beach

18. She has an egg in her feed every day

19. She always has first use of the Caulfield track for her work

20. Only once, at her first start, has Black Caviar not started odds-on. She won her debut at $3

21. Her fastest 200m (one furlong) split is 9.98sec between the 600m & 400m in the 2012 Lightning Stakes (her 19th win). She’s the first horse in Australia to break 10secs for a furlong in an official thoroughbred race, giving her a top speed of 72.14km/h or 45.09mph.

22. 15 of her 25 victories have been in Group 1 races, and she has won over five furlongs (1,000 metres) 6 times, six furlongs (1,200 metres) 18 times and seven furlongs (1,400 metres) once.

23. Only two horses have come within a length of her at the post, both times Black Caviar was carrying injury. Stablemate Wanted (subsequent Newmarket Hcp winner same track and distance) went within 0.8 lengths at her first start in Group company in the Danehill Stakes-G2 (1200m) at Flemington in September 2009 after she blundered the start and tore muscles in her chest. She raced only once during the next 57 weeks.  Group 1 winner Moonlight Cloud also came close to beating Black Caviar the Golden Jubilee at Royal Ascot.

24. Black Caviar and Frankel are distant relations on the dam side.

25. Black Caviar’s 21st dam, Prunella (dam of 1804 Epsom Oaks winner Pelisse), is the 18th dam of Frankel.

26. Luke Nolen has been her jockey in all but three of her races, missing only her first two starts (when she was ridden by 16-year-old apprentice Jarrad Noske) and her first Group 1 victory in the Patinack Farm Classic in November 2010 (when Ben Melham was in the saddle as Nolen was suspended).

27. Black Caviar’s dam – Helsinge was unnamed when purchased by Rick Jamison at the Inglis Easter Broodmare Sale, and was first named Oh Billy Oh before changing name to Helsinge.

28. Her odds of $1.04 in the Patinack Farm Classic was the shortest price in a Group 1 race since Valerius started at $1.03 in the 1961 Chipping Norton Stakes.

29. Black Caviar is a fully fledged Victorian:

  • bred by Rick Jamieson, whose Gilgai Farm is located in Nagambie, VIC
  • her sire Bel Esprit stands at Eliza Park, Kerrie VIC
  • her dam is by Desert Sun (GB) who also stands at Eliza Park, Kerrie VIC
  • she was sold at the Inglis Melbourne Premier Yearling Sale
  • she was offered for sale by Swettenham Stud, Nagambie VIC
  • she was purchased by Peter Moody who trains at Caulfield, VIC
  • she is Super VOBIS qualified (Victorian Owners and Breeders Incentive Scheme)
  • she has only raced – and won – on Victorian metropolitan race tracks
  • she has her own blog at racingvictoria.net.au
  • the majority of her owners live in Victoria
  • she has been ridden by 3 Victorian jockeys

30. Her half-sister (by the sire Redoute’s Choice) just sold for 2.6 million Australian dollars at the 2012 Inglis Easter Yearling Sale – a record price for a yearling filly in Australia.

31. Her half-brother (by the sire Redoute’s Choice) sold for $5 million, breaking the previous Australasian record for a horse held by his sister in 2012, at the 2013 Inglis Australian Easter Yearling Sale"

Hey Gladys,

Take a look at Vain, Luskin Star, Manikato, Kingston Town, Atlantic Jewel, none of them EVER had the speed to match Black Caviar's 10secs for a furlong in an official thoroughbred race,

By knocking CHAMPION Black Caviar Gladys has once more displayed herself to be the fool that we all know she is.

BLACK CAVIAR INJURIES 

 However, despite winning 14 Group 1 races in Australia, her best win came at Royal Ascot in 2012. She was all the rage on track when lining up in the Diamond Jubilee Stakes against Europe’s best sprinters.

She endured the 30-hour flight and even wore a compression suit to help with travel sickness. She also faced a track that was much tougher than ones she raced on in Australia.

The Royal Ascot surface is hilly and she found it tough to cope. However, her class was on display and although Luke Nolen almost botched her perfect record, she did enough to hold on for a narrow win.

Months after the race, Black Caviar was found to have suffered multiple injuries during the race. She sustained a grade-four quadriceps tear and a grade-two sacroiliac tear.

The win put her head and shoulders above any sprinter of this generation. She returned to Australia and won three more races before retiring on April 17, 2013.

Speaking of lists Gaz, how is that list going. Have you come up with any names as yet?

Didn't think so. Back to name calling and diversion and talking to yourself I suppose.

Gary,

Re your: "King, I just accepted what Gladys said about Andretti winning Ascot 1200m."

Just add this one to the ongoing list of Gladys' DELUSIONS 

 

You can't name one so you decide to have a discussion with yourself about a totally irrelevant matter.

When you are found out you try to change the topic to another horse and another country.

I have made my point and given you every chance to respond. Like what Winx beat, you have got nuthin'.

King. I just accepted what Gladys said about Andretti winning Ascot 1200m. 

Thanks for the clarification. That makes more sense.

Cheers,

Gary

 

Gladys,

You said:

"Miss Andretti, Takeover Target and Choisir all went over there and took on strong fields. She was entered in a race that was weak with the second horse never having won over the distance prior to that race."

Moonlight Cloud could hardly have possesed a stong 1200m record as it had had only ever started once over 1200m.

On this occasion, its one and only start over the distance prior to meeting BC at Ascot GB it was first up after a spell and finished 5th of 16 runners.

Some horses perform well after a spell over 1200m & some do NOT.

However it is interesting to note in support of Gary's theory about 1400m horses being better suited at the 1200m of the Golden Jubilee at Ascot that Moonlight Cloud did in fact win a G3 over 1400m first up from a seven month spell by 2 lengths just prior to running an excellent 2nd to the CHAMPION SPRINTER BLACK CAVIAR.

I think that based on Moonlight Cloud's subsequent Group form following the clash with Black Caviar it is safe to say:

"is it any wonder that this well performed 1400m horse did so well in the Golden Jubilee?"

 

Gary,

You indicated that:

Any 1200m race at Ascot is considered ideal for 1400m horses, because it's a straight course with a brutal climb to the finish. 

I say:

GOOD POINT WELL MADE

In support of this claim Gary I offer the following:

Miss Andretti was a superstar at 1200m, which she proved by winning at this distance at Flemington, Moonee Valley, Caulfield, Ascot WA, Belmont WA & Pinjarra.

When it came to attempting to win over 1400m she failed at both Caulfield & Belmont WA however she did in fact win one race over 1400m in a lowly Cl 6 at Pinjarra.

Given these FACTS it is fair to say that she was NOT a very good 1400m horse but she was a superstar at 1200m on most courses EXCEPT ONE.

I dare say that it is more than a coincidence that this known 1200m superstar who did not perform well over 1400m FAILED MISERABLY in the G1 1200m Golden Jubilee at Ascot GB.

It is more than a coincidence that this 1200m superstar was able blow them away over a 1000m at Ascot GB in the Kings Stand but could NOT repeat the dose over in the 1200m Golden Jubilee.

Why?

The answer is obvious.

She was NOT a well performed 1400m horse & was found wanting up the hill over the gruelling 1200m course.

Gary, 

You said:

"All three Australian horses have form at 1400 or longer. The conditions of the Ascot 1200m gave Moonlight Cloud every conceivable chance."

Obviouslygiven what I said above I strongly disagree that Miss Andretti had "form at 1400 or longer"

However I do agree that:

"The conditions of the Ascot 1200m gave Moonlight Cloud every conceivable chance."

AND

That it takes a strong 1400m type horse to win the Golden Jubilee over 1200m at Ascot GB

 

Use the search function, Parrot.

What a weak reply King Gaz.

I know Hay List is one answer but that is not the question. Just tell me the answer to the question I asked.

Come on King Gaz. Indulge me just this once. Who were the horses, or just one horse that she beat that would have been a top liner in any era.

No diversions, no avoiding, just one name. You can't do it, can you!

All three Australian horses have form at 1400 or longer. The conditions of the Ascot 1200m gave Moonlight Cloud every conceivable chance.

The names of BC&W victims have already been supplied, both in and outside of this thread. Can you use the seach function?.

Gee Garytheking. I never realised that Takeover Target, Choisir and Miss Andretti were really also top milers and even stayers.

After that 1200 at Ascot that really equates to a staying distance in your view, why weren't they considered for the Melbourne Cup?

Names Gaz, give us some names.

Gladys,

The connections of WINX kept her at the supposed Coward's Castle as unlike you they were smart enough to realise that they could win many millions more in Aus without travelling & exposing their champion mare to the potential perils of long term travel induced health problems.

The prize money in Aus is so much better!

"a distance she had never won"

BRUTAL, UPHILL, STRAIGHT course at 1200m. Ideal for 1400m, milers and stayers. I know you're not stupid, so stop pretending you are. 

What a stupid reply Gaztheking.

I don't think the connections of Moonlight Cloud would have been too concerned about a further encounter given what she did over a distance she had never won.

As for Winx, her connections kept her at Coward's Castle beating up stable mates and other no hopers.

The names, where are those names?

Gary,

Re your:

"Do you know why Highland Reel and Moonlight Cloud won so many G1s overseas?

They never had to run into Black Caviar and Winx".

I SAY GOOD POINT WELL MADE

Theking, he thinks that you and me are the same person.

Do you know why Highland Reel and Moonlight Cloud won so many G1s overseas?

They never had to run into Black Caviar and Winx.

 

That is where we differ Gary. I have watched horse racing since a child in the sixties and have seen wonderful horses all through the decades. About the only comparison one would hear would be something like "best since Phar Lap" or "best since Tulloch" but said without much conviction as each era was different, different tracks, different conditions, handicaps were handicaps not compressed weights or equal weights with penalties as they are today.

What really annoys me in today's racing is the likes of clowns like yourself. Instead of just enjoying the era and accepting that we are rock bottom in wfa racing, you have to crow on about how great Winx is or was. I accept she was a fine horse and the best of her era but accept she beat nothing of note. People such as yourself cannot accept that and the only way you justify your view is to rubbish all who have come before. Your stupid flag waving and sobbing, interviewing the jockey's wife and kids,having people arrive by driving up the track in an open car makes me want to vomit.

Winx was a great horse, so was Black Caviar. They beat nothing. Your ridiculous post by comparing all previous champions to Hay List and Hartnell concedes that they both raced against mediocre at best, which is flattering to say the least, competition.

I suggest you sit down, have a sob as you watch reruns of Invictus Prince being just beaten and do some of your stupid ratings.

I notice over the many months I have replied to your stupid posts, none of your followers have bothered to support you. I suppose that is the reason you needed to invent your alias The King.

If I am wrong, give us the names of the horses she beat that would have been competitive in any era.

 

A fine list. They would have been the Hay Lists and Hartnells of the supersonic era.

.

What an extraordinary post even by your low standards Garytheking. I recall watching the great Might and Power do an exhibition gallop between races in Sydney years back. It was just him and a stablemate and he ran the final 600 metres in a touch over 32. I recall reading an interview a few days later with Alan Denham who stated that not much could be read into that time as there was no pressure. I also recall Lee Freedman talking about Super Impose and his powerful finishes in the two Sydney mile races. He stated that Super Impose could not do that when facing Vo Rogue as the pressure the latter produced just "sucked the sprint right out of him".

Winx never faced that, just a procession of stable hacks and no hopers. Any reasonable horse that was sound would have flogged those no hopers. You know that. That is the reason you resort to insults and diversions as you cannot name just one decent horse who would have been a stand out in any era.

To describe our horses of yesteryear as being in a "prehistoric era" is a sad reflection on you. When things get back to normal I think your calling would be as a stand up comedian at race functions. You could wear your crown, big shoes, a flower that squirts water and spruik that all our champions of past era were prehistoric and no match for these two. You would have them in the aisles with laughter. Whilst they were rolling about you could name all the good horses that Winx beat. You would be a sensation.

Vain, Luskin Star, Manikato, Kingston Town, Atlantic Jewel, none of them had any acceleration did they you disrepectful little toad.

I'm not talking about gross times.

Compare the sectionals. The answer will set you free. The acceleration that Caviar and Winx had did not exist in the prehistoric era. .

Come on Gaztheking. Give us that list again as I can't find it.

Name those horses that Winx beat that would have been a top liner in any era. I recall you had lots of names like "daylight" but cannot recall any actual horses being named.

Invictus Prince, Red Excitement maybe?

When you get in a lather you seem to bounce between personalities and identities very quickly, don't you Garytheking.

Sectionals mean nothing as to how talented a horse may be. Most horses can unleash a fast time, just have a look at the horses that hold track and race records.

As to all that misty eyed tripe about Black Caviar racing uphills whilst severely injured to beat a champion is just unbelievable.

Miss Andretti, Takeover Target and Choisir all went over there and took on strong fields. She was entered in a race that was weak with the second horse never having won over the distance prior to that race. Who cares what happened after that race. That is just a bit more of the Highland Reel reverse engineering.

As to injury, the only one she suffered from over there was Regumate withdrawal. A different horse when she wasn't tanked up on that little additive.

As I said, abuse, name calling, diversion and arguing irrelevant points is all you have got because you know, just as I do, she beat nuthin'.

King, re your:

"So, If Black Caviar's overseas sojourn meant absolutely nothing to you, why blather on about Winx needing to race overseas to prove itself?"

WELL DONE, GARY, POINT WELL MADE!

More delusions from Gladys.

As if WINX could NOT have won a multitude of Grp1s overseas.

 

Compare the sectionals. The answer will set you free.

No Gary. The champs of yesteryear were never as fortunate as these two as to be able to compete against stable hacks and total no hopers.

The only thing warped is your logic.

That question has alredy been answered.

These two beasts travelled at warp speed. The champs of yesteryear never encountered anything like them. 

It seems neither of your personalities slept too well last night Garythe king.

As much as I would like to correct your inverted logic once again I won't rise to the bait.

Name calling, diversions, accusations are all you have. I know when you resort to these tactics you have no justifiable argument.

Who did Winx beat that you consider to be a top liner in any era.

Silence, crickey sounds....nothing else. Must be a slow day in the ward.

Gladys,

So Black Caviar beat duds as well?

Any 1200m race at Ascot is considered ideal for 1400m horses and milers, because it's a straight course with a brutal climb to the finish. 

Yet Black Caviar, which had only ONCE raced  over 1400m, managed to hold off Moonlight cloud. despite breaking down in the run, despite being eased down before the line, despite the journey being unsuitable for sprinters,

And it beat Moonlight Cloud, which went on to win a Grp1 at its following start and many more Grp1s thereafter!

So, If Black Caviar's overseas sojourn meant absolutely nothing to you, why blather on about Winx needing to race overseas to prove itself?

If I ever run a book on who is the biggest forum dud of all time, you will be installed as odds-on favouritie. 

Idjut.

 

Gladys, you say Black Caviar "raced duds" (at Ascot)

What a deluded dunce you are.

Moonlight Dancer who ran 2nd to Black Caviar at Ascot had already proven itself to be a quality horse prior to their meeting and continued to display exceptional Group form in its subsequent racing career.

It is Not surprising to me that you are once again displaying the natural talent of a DELUDED M00R0N.

We can now just simply add this one to the following list of delusions you have been responsible for posting in the past:

SOME OF GLADY'S DELUSIONS

1. Moonlight Dancer was a dud 

2. Criterion almost going over the running rail in a Cox Plate

3. Massive checks to Highland Reel in a Cox Plate

4. Makybe Diva winning the Turnbull Stakes in course record time,

5. Manikato was a Champion Sprinter / Miler when clearly based on historical FACT he was only ever pretty much a one trick pony.

6. Oh & lets not forget "Gary & theking" are the same person!

etc, etc..... the list goes on

Gladys, you have been made a fool of so many times by YOUR KING I am suprised that you keep coming back time and time again for further justified ridicule.

Gladys what a delusional goose you are.

 

Nothing strange about it at all Gary.

They all faced competition and took on challenges. BC at least went to Ascot albeit raced duds whilst Winx, well how many times do you have to be told before it permeates your thick skull.

Glad hysterical,

Strange how you appreciated every "champion" that came along, from Kingston Town right up until Makybe Diva but did NOT rate Black Caviar or Winx.

idjut

Contact admin Gladys and if you are proven correct, I'll also give you a million dollars, no on second thought better make that fivehundred thousand each from both Gary and I.

Thats only fair as afterall as you know Gary and I do everything together.

Idiot.

Contact admin Gladys and if you are proven correct, I'll give you a million dollars.

Idiot.

That is a very happy story Gary or are you TheKlown today.

I imagine after you waved your Winx flag and had a goodhearted sob the nurses came and took you back to your ward and gave you your meds.

WINX Stakes day, oh what a wonderful day we had full of joy and hapiness much of which was spent reminiscing about the deeds of the GREATEST thoroughbred to have ever raced in Australia or possibly even the best the world has ever seen. 

Oh what a fun day we had with me dressed in my ROYAL BLUE mantle with the WHITE M once again and my little page once again dressed in his pedominately blue satin outfit with the white M in an extremely cute attempt to impersinate Mr Hughey.

Oh how the elderly women loved him, some of who wanted to give him a little peck on the cheek or others who simply wanted to get a selfie with him,

What great fun, it was just like revisiting the glory days when WINX dominated season after season.

The only down side to our day was that my page now a little older and a whole lot chubier grisled a bit all afternoon as he insisted that the elastic was now way to tight around his waist.

Bu his grisle soon turned to a great big smile when Gary brought out the big blue iced cake with the white M.

How we all cheered when Gary at his best (what a card) spun the cake around the opposite way and declared that it was not an M but it was a great big W standing for Winx.

Oh what a joyful day we had even my little page got in the act and stuck his little Winx flag into the cake before we cut it.

We were all overcome with this one totally spontaneous act of cuteness which saw a grisly little face turn in an instance into the most elated smile that anyone has ever seen.

A day of absolute adulation for Winx was had by al our party and also for many onlookers, oh how we enjoyed the day.

We all feel oh so sorry for you Gladys.

We feel its such a shame that you are such a boring WINX grinch!

You poor thing, you have missed out on so much joy.

 

Yes Rex he still is here.

Unfortunately he has morphed into two personalities and has trouble remembering whether his name is Gary or TheKlown.

The two personalities like to confer with each other at every opportunity. Gary achieves this quite easily by talking directly into his mirror.

I see this weekend will bring back happy memories for you and the dual personality clown with the Winx Stakes being run.

Oh those wonderful memories of a mare full of Regumate getting 2kgs taking on several aged stayers having their first start in a preparation. If that is not enough there is usually a couple of non tryers from some no account stable with the strict stipulation that the field should not exceed seven starters. 

After the guard of honour is completed then the mandatory sob from the sycophants completes the whole debacle.

Wonderful, wonderful memories.

Rex

Is this imbecile still here? get a life ya tool

Theking is far more knowledgeable about racing than I am, or ever will be. He only recently came to the forum after making contributions on another R & S medium (Newsgroup..?).

If you can't see the difference betweein Northerly and Winx, how could I expect you to see the difference between Theking and me. The picture is now complete. Your Master's Degree in stupidity has been framed and despatched.. 

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks".

Get some help Gaz.

Gary, he thinks that you and me are the same person.

Yeah & he also thinks that MANIKATO was a brilliant sprinter/miler because Wiki said so.Relying on simply regurgitating whatever Wiki says proves her/him to be totally incapable of having the basic ability to formulate and express an original tought or opinion..

It would appear that based on her latest ridiculous insistance regarding our collective abilty to speed post she must now find herself in some sort of a timewarp or parallel universe.

In any case nothing would surprise me any more in regard to the foolishness she posts eg.  She once accused me of posting something  and then saying something such as nice trick King the way you posted that but was able to get back on here in a flash and change it to say something else.

But the question here is Gladys, was it theking who got back on and changed that post or was it that speedy King Gary?

You have got to watch him you know he is a speedy little character.

And once again Gladys, you become an abject failure at analyses.of any sort. Look below at the history.

At 11.28 pm I posted a suggestion that you look at an aged post containing a list of 20 horses that Winx has beaten.

After the post was processed and accepted, I evidently logged out as Gary Still, logged back in as Theking, accessed the forum portal, clicked the relevant thread, wrote a list of eight horses, ensuring that the spelling and formats were correct, and then posted this list at 11.30 pm.

Despite how slow the forum can be, all of this was achieved within a recordbreaking timeframe of 2 minutes.

Nice work Sherlock.

Now you are talking to yourself. When you were in your King guise you admitted you were one and the same.

When all is hopeless just create a distraction is your motto Gary.

Gladys,

Look at theking's post at 11.21 pm, where he refers to a list of horses.

Without seeing theking's post I chimed in at 11.28 pm suggesting that you look up a list of 20 that I had put up some time ago. 

Theking then posted at 11.30 pm (9 minutes after his original post) with the list that he had referred to in his 11.21pm post. 

I'll give you one chance to at least get one thing right in this train wreck of a thread that you have created.

 

Theking, he thinks that you and me are the same person.

Gladys,

You say that you will refrain from further comments.

Does this mean that you have simply run out of info to plagiarize and present straight from:

Manikato

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia?

I can't help but notice the four consecutive posts and the time of each posting.

I will refrain from further comments.

I think you should seek some professional help Gaz.

MANIKATO THE MYTHICAL MILER

How about listing all these MILE races he won and all of the ones he was beaten in.

He was beaten in far more than he won!

He should be known as MANIKATO THE MISERABLE MILER

Gladys,

Re your: "attempt to denigrate perhaps the greatest sprinter/miler of his era."

Nobody is attempting to denigrate MANIKATO as supposedly "the greatest sprinter/miler of his era."

NO we don't need to denigrate him as history will support the FACT that he denigrates himself with his POOR record over the sprint and mile distances as follows:

G1 3yo & upwards WFA or G1 open handicap wins over the following distances:

1000m = nil wins

1200m = nil wins

1600m = nil wins

Seriously is that the record of a GREAT sprinter miler?

Sorry lawyer but I think your sentimental blubbering tears are getting in the way of seeng the FACTS of MANIKATO's actual record as a sprinter/miler.

You would have to be the dopiest lawyer that ever lived!

 

When it gets tough revert to your other identity Gaz. Usually I don't respond "attempt to denigrate perhaps the greatest sprinter/miler of his era."

sprinter/miler ????

Sprinter??? he never won an open company group 1 race either WFA or hcp over the classic 1200m SPRINT distance!

He only ever won one G2 mile race, no other Group wins either hcp or WFA over a mile.

"third in a Doncaster"????

Tell me more about this great miler's wins rather than its defeats!

"won the Rothmans Hundred Thousand (The Doomben 10,000), a Group One Handicap in those days," 

NO IT WASN'T 

He was a bum as a sprinter (1200m) and an even bigger bum as a miler (1600m) his record proves this.

On this basis of FACTS you must be the dumbest lawyer that ever was!

Aren't lawyers supposed to deal in FACTS?

 

When it gets tough revert to your other identity Gaz. Usually I don't respond when you change names but as you are incapable of answering my question and resort to identity changes I will give you something to ponder given your veiled attempt to denigrate perhaps the greatest sprinter/miler of his era.

Which of those horses contested and came third in a Doncaster as a three year old carrying 57.5kg, a weight carrying record being 3.5kg more than Tontonan a former three year old champion who previously held the record.

When that does your stupid head in consider this. Which of those horses named contested and won the Rothmans Hundred Thousand (The Doomben 10,000), a Group One Handicap in those days, carried 58kg and equalled Baguettes weight carrying record for a three year old.

To denigrate a champion horse like Manikato just to deflect your inability to answer a question just about sums you up.

Good horse, best of her era, beat absolutely nuthin' but gave the press something to write about because there was nuthin' else happening. 

Kingston Town

Makybe Diva

Manikato

Might & Power

Northerly

Saintly

Sunline

Winx

Look up the list I suppied a year ago - 20 good horses beaten by Winx and 10 by Black Caviar. 

 

Loook at this list of past greats shown in alphabetical order.

One of these horses is the odd one out.

Answer the following five questions and it will soon become apparent just which horse should NOT be listed in this elite list.

(I dare say that even a lawyer could answer these)

1. Which horses won at least one major G1 handicap race?

2. Which horses won at least one Cox Plate?

3. Which of these horses won at least one major G1 handicap & at least one Cox Plate?

4. Which horse did NOT win at least one major G1 handicap race?

5. Which horse did NOT win at least one Cox Plate?

Oh and BTW lawyer, this is NOT an attempt to denigrate a particular horse; these are simply the FACTS.

I have been given no names except one by an idiot.

Lets hear your names.

You have been given many names, many times, by many posters. And each time, your rebuttal is silent. You ask questions, but give no answers. Pretend you're a lawyer and do some research to find the numerous answers given on this thread.

After you've done that, find the sectionals that Sunline and Northerly used to run, and stack the figures up against Winx. it will blow your mind, if you have one. 

 

 

Yes Gaz. I am sure.

I am also sure you cannot give us any names as there are none.

Are you sure you're a lawyer?

What has my occupation got to do with naming horses Gaz?

You have really got yourself into a terrible tangle Gaz!

Who did she beat that would be regarded as a top quality wfa horse Gaz?

Who did she run down that would be regarded as a top quality wfa horse Gaz.

Are you sure you're a lawyer??

Then really shoot my argument to bits by answering my two questions Gaz.

Name the horses instead of ridiculing me and denigrating our former champions who did compete against quality horses. 

Name the quality horses she beat instead of hurling abuse Gaz.

When you write garbage like "No more from me. I have proven my point.", the reply is warranted. You haven't proven a damn thing. 

So much crap from you, but probably your most ridiculous premise is that First Seal and several others prematurely retired or lost form, allowing Winx to become the world champion. The inference being, of course, that this entire group of elite Australian horses, which retired early or lost form, would have surpassed Winx in Longines World champion ratings. 

Other moronic statements made by you, off the top of my head..

Sunline and Northerly could have missed the start by 4 lengths at 1400 metres and run a sub 32 second last 600m.

Every single horse was interfered with in 2015 Cox Plate, allowing Winx to coast to victory.

.

 

You are just too stupid to even warrant a reply.

You have certainly lost it over this one Gary.

This is the sum total of Pancake Kato's Group 1 wins.

1979 STC George Ryder Stakes G1 1400m
1980 STC George Ryder Stakes G1 1400m
1980 VATC Futurity Stakes G1 1400m
1981 VATC Futurity Stakes G1 1400m
1983 VATC Futurity Stakes G1 1400m

If WINX is NOT around then Happy Clapper achieves a far superior record.

His current Group wins (let alone placings) currently are:

2017

ATC Epsom Handicap

G1

1600m

2018

ATC Canterbury Stakes

G1

1300m

2018

ATC Doncaster Handicap

G1

1600m

2015

ATC Villiers Stakes

G2

1600m

2017

Tatt's Tramway Handicap

G2

1400m

2017

NJC Newmarket Handicap

G3

1400m

2019

ATC Craven Plate

G3

2000m

If not running 2nd to WINX on many occasions his record would then presumably have the addition of the following Group wins:

G1 Chipping Norton

G1 George Ryder

G1 Optimo White Stakes

G1 Doncaster

G2 Apollo Stakes

That would then have been a total of 7/G1 wins,  3/G2 wins,  2/G3 wins

 

The only thing you've proven is that when you fall flat on your face, you hit the ground hard!

Yes I do. They would have both flogged Invictus Prince and Spirit Jim and ninety five per cent of the other no hopers she beat.

You just can't bring yourself to face the fact that she neither did she beat or storm home to beat anything of quality.

No more from me. I have proven my point.

Good horse, best of dreadful era, beat nothin'!

 

World-beaters, Freemason and Dandy Andy. Remember them?

If Winx was not around then who were our top wfa horses between say 2015 to 2019 Gary?

If you are able to name any would they have been standout horses in any era?

Let me get you started. Invictus Prince, Sons of John, Spirit Jim?

Deflect that one with some childish name calling because you have nothing else.

To suggest that two champions were invincible because the standard of racing suddenly dropped is downright stupid. You said you had a basis of measuring such standards. Where is it?

If a grade cricketer goes down to the local park and flogs the bowlers from the local pub team, would you then refer to him as a champion, the best in Australian history and the greatest cricketer in the world?

I posed two simple questions to you and all you can do is attack me personally because you do not have an answer.

Leave your opinion of me aside for one moment and attack the questions that were posed. You can't. That is why you resort to personal attacks and slurs of former greats who did race against quality horses, not stablemates, duds and handicappers.

Come on Gary. Just give us all the answer.

 

Strangely, you appreciated every "champion" that came along, from Kingston Town right up until Makybe Diva.

I would never waste a fine wine on you. You appreciate good, but you have no idea about great.  

Silly, childish name calling. That is your response Gary because that is all you have got.

I guess it would be better to be one eyed then to be blind in both.

Beauty is in the one-eye of the beholder. . 

More blather from you because you cannot name one horse.

If her era was the greatest in Australian racing history how come you can only name her and no other horse that was any good.

Your replies and mis truths give a fair indication of your character.

Good horse, best of an one horse era, beat nothin' or if she did, Gary can't remember their names.

No sobbing here, One-eye. It was you that laid them both relentlessly, and it was you that was praying for a miracle to see them beaten. It didn't happen and you've been venting ever since.

You and your other identity have nothing but insults and deflections.

You have got nothing, not one name, just nothing.

Go back to sobbing at reruns of Invictus Prince and Red Excitement being beaten.

No Gary, NOT one eyed I am sure that you will agree with the Royal Decree from King Gary that Gladys is far more suited to being dubbed No eyedea. 

This title is so apt for a person who is continually regurgitating delusions such as Criterion almost going over the running rail, massive checks to Highland Reeel, Makybe Diva winning the Turnbull Stakes in course record time, Manikato the onre trick pony as having been some sort of immortal superstar (look at some of the duds that beat him), as well as massive delusions of grandeur about herself.

And the most delusional one of all is that Winx (even the Yanks aknowledged her greatnes) beat nuthin ha, ha, haaa, what a delusional boofhead you are Gladys, like I said you have No eyedea.

 

One-eyed - there's your name.

A name Gary, just one name.

I see you have become your other self in an attempt to deflect this question.

Come on Gaz, a name.

Gladys,

These are the facts about your idol & supposed GREAT of yesteryear.

MANIKATO was a great horse when he was beating up on the little kids as a 2yo & 3yo at set weights

BUT

The reality is that he later developed into pretty much a one trick pony as his only G1 wins were all 1400m at WFA.

He never won a G1 race over 1200m 3yo & upwards at WFA.

He never a G1 race over 1600m 3yo & upwards at WFA.

He proved to be a dud as a handicapper and never won a G1 handicap race.

Why was it that we never saw him in a Oakleigh Plate or a NEWMARKET.

Was it because he was running scared of Razor Sharp who won the NEWMARKET in 82 & 83 when pancake Kato was in his prime?

Weight didn't stop Razor Sharp winning his second NEWMARKET hcp with 58.5kg or even the GREAT Black Caviar lumping 58 kg to win her NEWMARKET hcp.

You are a one-eyed racing supporter who couldnt bear to watch his idols dethroned.  As a consequence you missed the greatest ever era of Australian horseracing. 

When Winx won her first Cox Plate your defence was that she was unproven until she won another. By the time she won her fourth, the argument became that the racing standard was the weakest ever.

One-eyed, one dimensional and one of a kind. Strewth!

 

Yes Gary, they were mighty horses. I also recall that no one would have any problem naming their respective contemporaries who were also very good.

I also recall we did not have sobbing sycophants declaring that any of those horses were the greatest of all time. They were declared the best of their era, as it should be.

Now we have people like your good self lecturing anyone that has the temerity to disagree with your infallible opinion.

So Gary, name the horse in relation to either question and resist the urge to giving another sermon.

Good horse, best of HER era, sadly beat nuthin'!

Like some footy supporterss, Gladys, you are one-eyed. 

It wouldn't have mattered what BC & W achieved, you would never have conceded they were superor to past champions.. You have not moved on - and you never will. 

I appreciated Kingston Town, Might and Power, Sunline, Northerly, Makybe Diva, So You Think, AT THAT TIME. The debate would inevitably rage between the fans about who was the best. 

Along came two horses, the likes of which have never been seen. All of Australia celebrated every single run of their phenomenal careers. All except one-eyed cynics like you. 

 

 

Come on Gary. Don't try and turn this into a "Winx was better than MD" or resort to denigrating our former champions so you can avois answering those two questions I asked.

All those former champions competed against quality opposition. Have a look at the long list of quality horses Manikato defeated. I provided that list for you months ago and you carefully avoided any comment.

Come on Gaz, just tell us one name, one name to either question. Your alter ego King will come back with Chautauqua and if so, perhaps he might like to provided that horses credentials over 1500 metres.

You have got nothing Gaz, just spreadsheets, stats that mean nuthin' and insults.

Good horse, best of woeful era, beat nuthin'

Just one name, just one, to either of the two questions Gary.

MD holds the course record at Flemington in 1.58.

No spreadsheets, stats, opinions or insults, just give us a name.

Good horse....you know the rest.

OK Gladys,

You wanted it, I have taken your advice and changed into my alter ego KING OUTFIT but as usual be prepared for some pain when the KING does his research, boy oh boy you really are a glutton for punishment.

You wrote:

"Have a look at her 2005 Turnbull in 1.58 if you get a chance. As times are your only basis as you can't name one horse, she would not have got within 6 lengths of MK."

1:58???????

I have checked on a number of different sites ( Racing Australia Registered race history, Horse racing Nation, Racing and Sports etc.....)

AND

What is common to all is that the 2005 Turnbull Stakes was run in 2:01.57 not 1:58 as stated by you.

 

You said that Winx could never get close to Makybe Diva because Makybe was able to run a fast 1.58.

I then presented a spreadsheet showing Winx's Cox Plate wins, which were the fastest EVER and superior to So You Think, Makybe Diva, Northerly, Sunline and Might & Power.

You are left floundering once again. 

 

Quote all the stats, times, insults et al Gary.

How about quoting the name of one good horse she beat that would have been a standout in any era.

If that is impossible try naming a good wfa horse she stormed home to beat.

Just one Gary, just one.

Good horse, best of her woefull era, beat nuthin'!

If you really want to throw GROSS times in the mix, throw yourself into these Cox Plate times and using YOUR basis of gross times analysis, explain why she could not get "within 6 lengths of MK"

1998 Might and Power           2.03.54

1999 Sunline                           2.05.40

2000 Sunline                           2.07.70

2001 Northerly                        2.05.40

2002 Northerly                        2.06.27

2005 Makybe Diva                 2.09.27

2009 So You Think                 2.03.98

2014 Adelaide                        2.03.76

2015 Winx                              2.02.98

2016 Winx                              2.06.35

2017 Winx                              2.02.94

2018 Winx                              2.03.47

2019 Lys Gracieux                  2.04.21

A fast gross time is created by a fast pace. Backmarkers have no say in how fast a race is run. All four past the post probably ran 1.58 something. So what?

Where in my previous posts have I mentioned GROSS time?

 

Well said Gary. Even with this "whirl wind" finish she would not have got near Makybe Diva if times are your basis.

Have a look at her 2005 Turnbull in 1.58 if you get a chance. As times are your only basis as you can't name one horse, she would not have got within 6 lengths of MK.

Still sure you want to rely on times as your proof.

Name one horse that she beat that would have been a standout in a previous era please. Name the good horses she "stormed home" to beat

Good horse, best of a very weak era, beat nuthin'

"Times mean nothing when you beat nothing"  You are a master at making vacuous observations.

Winx came from impossible positions and ran incredible sectionals that past champs could never achieve. The turn of foot shown by Winx and Black Caviar sets a new benchmark for true champions. Enjoy your fond recollection of your past idols, but get your head out of the sand and learn to cope wtih their limitations, without ludicrously suggesting they could have withstood these two whirlwind finishers.

Yes Gary. Avoid the question.